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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,534 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,534 Likes: 4 |
The AR system is extremely reliable, flexible and accurate. I'd guess that I have fired more than 50,000 rounds thru various AR's and have to say those who don't like them would not be happy with anything.
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,218
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,218 |
How 'bout my one complaint - finding the brass? I have a $20 brass catcher that snaps on the reciever. works like a charm, prolly hods 40 empties. much easier to recover the brass than any semi auto handgun i own. recovering brass-no problem. O
Too old to suffer fools
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,798
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,798 |
I have no idea. They're overpriced, unreliable, not to mention all of the things you noted.
But they sell like hotcakes... It's like Glocks, for me. Just don't understand. that right there is funny! http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/army_carbine_dusttest_071217/I guess if 3 times less reliable than other comparable rifles isn't unreliable, then sure. They're not unreliable. Blowing exploding gases into a receiver couldn't possibly be worse than keeping them out, right?... Sheesh...
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 16,718
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 16,718 |
much easier to recover the brass than any semi auto handgun i own. I'm down to one pistol, for the same reason. I'm probably to easily aggrevated 'bout such things, but I like brass by lots, and in even numbers. Ninety-six pieces nearly causes me to lose sleep.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749 |
2 of the 3 other guns mentioned in the test are not available to civilians - the XM8 and the HK 416. The Scar is but for $3000 give or take. An average Joe can buy a Colt M-4 6920 for half that and if he keeps it somewhat clean and lubed it will likely never malfunction in his normal use. If that's not good enough go spend 3k on a SCAR..............................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,384 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,384 Likes: 1 |
As opposed to those of us who used them 1966-1970. I still don't trust them.
My kid, son-in-law and brother-in-law all love them.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,218
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,218 |
much easier to recover the brass than any semi auto handgun i own. I'm down to one pistol, for the same reason. I'm probably to easily aggrevated 'bout such things, but I like brass by lots, and in even numbers. Ninety-six pieces nearly causes me to lose sleep. Mak.., God help us both. Ninety six pieces makes me nuts. wish somebody made a brass catcher for Glocks that works as well as my AR catcher. Sucks to be anal. O
Too old to suffer fools
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,533 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,533 Likes: 6 |
For the military version, you can buy a brass deflector that fits between the top of the carrying handle and the top of the receiver. It drops the cases at your feet.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,533 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,533 Likes: 6 |
Reliability? They're super reliable. After thousands of rounds, including some reloaded 12 times, I've never had a malfunction except when I hold my left hand over the ejection port, which I tend to do offhand, and prevent the case from ejecting.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
Try shooting against one at 300 yds with an M1 Garand. 10 rounds in 70 seconds with a reload after 2 rounds. One of my fellow coyote hunters dropped one at 350 yds. Show up at the 2 day Zombie Shoot held by DPMS April 24, 25th. It is an Ar 15 love fest.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Why? Because they are easy to make shoot sub moa all the way well past 600 yards. Because they stay supersonic to 1000 yards. TONS of accessories. EXTREMELY reliable. Brass is simple to find if you trim the ejector spring correctly. A myriad of calibers. and I mean a myriad... from what I know of 22 LR through 50 bmg fit on the lower. And I've heard of 410 shotgun now and a crossbow upper.
They don't fit folks so well, but they are easy to get used to.
I grew up with the M14 in matches, and never got used to the M1 really, but I had to adapt and I cussed the M16 for a few years and so did my wife, but once used to them, they feel just fine to me.
They are super easy to put a scope on, easy to pop iron sights on. Easy to add lights, grips, lasers, etc...
Can't do most any of the above with a good bolt gun.
I will say that you will spend about teh same amount of money to get the same accuracy from either platform. And in the end game the AR will be slightly less accurate than the best bolt guns. Though I've won MANY a match with an AR service rifle shooting against all the match rifles including the bolt gun.
What other gun was capable of allowing me to beat David Tubb in a 600 yard state match? My AR service rifle vs his Tubb 2000 bolt gun....
I can't find much of any fault in them at all. Lock time would be the biggest complaint I have.
Mako.... pull the spring from the ejector, trim it until the ejector top sits about 1/8 inch above the face of the bolt, and pin it back in place. You should be happy as all get out.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
BTW I've used some of mine for game. Generally larger rounds than the 223, but lets just say coyotes have taken a hurting out to 417 yards so far, and I've actually taken one deer at either 565 or 556 I turn those numbers around.... and that with a 223.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
All the cash we pour into guns, and guys are worried about losing maybe 3 pieces of brass out of 50 at the range?
I've yet for my M&P15 to hiccup. Even once. If it had a voice it would be begging to be cleaned as well. And it cost a whopping $700.00.
Don't even get me started on duty issued Colts. Reliability is the last of my concerns.
Travis
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 16,718
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 16,718 |
God help us both. Ninety six pieces makes me nuts. wish somebody made a brass catcher for Glocks that works as well as my AR catcher. Sucks to be anal. I'd actually pay a premium if I could buy lots of say 54, or 106 pieces - it's stupid, but that's how I look at it.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,183
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,183 |
I, too, have long been perplexed by the mania over AR's. Several people I know, who otherwise don't give a fig about guns, rave about owning one. I personally wouldn't want one because they're butt-ugly and suspect that many people buy them simply because they watch too much TV (the perceived "cool factor"). Beats the hell outta me, though if that's what floats your boat...
Just my two cents.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,218
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,218 |
Tuc..,
I shared your attitude for many years. Never cared for any form of semi auto. Still don't much. In fact, I was in the Army when the M16 was first issued and it had a real reputation as a jam-o-matic.
But when Clinton told us they had 'no sporting purpose' I had to find out. I've killed several white tails and use mine as a close range vermin rifle. I've reloaded for and shot nearly a dozen or so since 1992. Never found an AR that wouldn't shoot 1 1/2, 5 shot groups at 100yds. with the right load.
The rifles are highly versatile and cheap (comparitively) to shoot. For me they are a grown up version of the 22lr...but so much more.
O
Too old to suffer fools
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,268
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,268 |
Take an off the rack Ruger, Remington, or whatever bolt gun with off the shelf iron sights and shoot it against an AR-15 at 100 yards with GI iron sights on it and tell me which one you shoot the best group with.....
Otto is my co-pilot.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 338
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 338 |
I had a few in the service - but mine would rocknroll...
Why today are they popular..main reason is becuz of the fear of being banned,just like AK's..So almost everybody went out and bought one...like a SKS wave sorta.
Cool factor,I own one,mines better than yours,Never was in the military,Fun to build -top and bottom or vice versa,You just look like a bad azz when you pull one out of a case at the range ...want me to keep going..LOLL
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,213
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,213 |
I personally would not use one in the field. However, I won't stop anyone else from doing so and I will support them 100% in their pursuit of happiness with their AR-15. We all need to stick together on this stuff or we'll get picked piece by piece until all of our rights are gone.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
$600 for a rifle that blows the gas onto the bolt face is overpriced, IMO. That's about all there is to it.
I can have a .223 that's about half the price and a lot more reliable, and that's not to mention the used market. Then again, I'd never use a gun that was finicky and needed a lot of maintenance, ever, so my standards are different. What AR did you own that gave you these reliability problems? Did you build it yourself? How many rounds between cleanings before it proved unreliable? I ask because you say they are "finicky". Travis
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