Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Can someone explain 11" extra drop at 300 yards?

Thanks for reporting the solution, there's always something to learn or re-learn. Hate it when a thread is left hanging.

Thanks for the update. The suspense was killing me. And glad you got it solved.

Ella

I've gotten a lot good out of this thread. I was on the edge of my computer chair! There had to be a solution, but what was it? I shoot a Kimber 84M and will now be aware of this possibility.

And I'm the goofy bastard for not using a bench and shooting at paper.

Dober,

Unit 69 (Tex Creek,less than 15 minutes from my door and great country) is getting hurt by the wolves. There were four sets of tracks in there when we were picking up sheds in 2007. Kind of cool to hear them howling, but I know they are hurting the deer and elk numbers. There seem to be far fewer elk and deer now, and they seem more spooky and stay in the trees more. I think lots of them moved across HWY 26 and winter on the dry farms to get away from them. Now I hear there are more wolves and that there is a den between Tex and Willow.

There are very, very few big bucks on public land during the general season. Dpending on snow, they move in later. However, if it is an early/heavy snow year and if you can get the Nov. draw tag, it would be a hunt of a lifetime. LOTS of huge, heavy beautiful mulies. The downside is the odds of drawing are about one in one hundred. I put in for years and finally just gave up. The odds are so low I'm just wasting the draw fee.

If you just want to see lots of huge bucks for fun, head up past Ririe Reservoir after January.

I'm not worried about putting this on a public forum because none of us will ever draw a tag there!

I never said that....

This is one of those things that happens;similar to my pals experience with the 300 mag. Little things can effect POI and accuracy as well.And whi shooting from distance the way one would in the field is a jolly good proceedure.

IDMilton;

Next time you go to the 300 yard target,get off the bench.Go prone, using your front rest as you would a log or a pack in the field and cradle the forend of the rifle in your left hand;don't use a rear bag at all.

You won't be able to hold as steady that way as you would off the bench,but don't worry about that.Fire 3 shot groups as quickly as you can cycle. Let us know if that effects POI and group size. Good luck!

PS:Sometimes we are all guilty of assuming that,just because we benched a light sporter at various distances that we have the "whole story";this is only sometimes true and is why it is important to get the rifle off the bench and into your hands at various distances.Recent obsession with tiny groups is the culprit here and the reason that many stay married to the bench,and never find out what shooter and rifle are truly capable of under field conditions.

IDMilton,

Congratulations on your success, and thanks for sharing it with us.

Thanks guys.

Bob, I usually practice offhand, sitting, and prone,and prone over my pack. Since I haven't bought a steel plate, I shoot milk jugs and balloons and paper.

Because this is a new set-up for me, I wanted the smallest groups possible to accurately tell me real drop. The place I'm shooting now goes out to 600 and I practice prone that far. Not that I'd want to shoot a big game animal that far, but it's fun and makes the closer shots seem a lot easier.

You made a joke earlier in the thread about 270s. In the last three years I've sold three and don't have one now. A Ruger ultrailight that walked badly after two shots. I know that it is fine for hunting, but I like to shot a lot and didn't like that. I had a Hawkeye next. It was accurate and consistent but the finish would scratch off with my fingernail. It was a little heavy for packing anyway so off it went. Then I tried a Tikka in 270. When I figured it out it was amazingly accurate. I sent it down the road for a stainless MK2 '06 with the green laminate stock I found for a good price. It matched my boy's 260 compact, which was kind of neat,and it was really accurate with 180 Horn. BTSP, but all up it was 9 pounds four ounces. When I found this Kimber 308, I sold it. Life would have been a lot easier gun wise to just stay with one of the 270s, but it's kind of fun getting the new ones going.

Of course, now my kids are a little older and my wife finished school and will be going back to work, maybe next year I can get rid of that household rule I have about me not getting a new rifle without getting rid of one!

This could very well indicate why a seeminly easy shot at a game animal is a miss, or worse, a wounded animal.

Rifles, and also handguns have a tendency to shoot to a different POI, depending on how they are held and the position they are fired from, and also who is holding it.

BobinNH made this very clear.

I would be interested in knowing the POI at 100 and 200 yards when the rifle was positioned like it was for the 300 yard tests which impacted low.

My guess is that the 100 and 200 yard groups would be considerably lower than they were in the original testing.

ID, this quote proves beyond doubt that you are a hopelessly-afflicted rifle loony. Welcome to the club!

123: Yes, that was why I am interested in how the rifle does from a field prone position....academic exercise to keep us informed.

This is interesting! I have noticed a similar issue recently, only groups moving left-right, very little vertical spread. I recently bought a new rear sandbag (med height ears). This thread got me to thinking because the rifle that exhibited this has a cheekpiece - thinking maybe the checkpiece is hitting the ear of the rear bag differently shot to shot, group to group ....

For example, shot 2 groups recently only 0.5gr apart in charge. Both groups were right at an inch at 200yds, but 4-5" apart left to right, and I had to move the rear bag between groups because they were on different targets.

An oldtimer at my club,a savvy gent named Gordy who is now deceased,told me that with any rifle that is full-length bedded, with pressure points etc, you have to recheck all zero's,etc from different positions because of possible shifts in POI going from even(in some cases) firm bags to off hand.There is no reason that grouping won't be better or worse, or vary a bit,depending on bench technique, how we hold the rifle, what we rest it on etc.

I found over the years that some rifles displayed this tendency and some did not.For example, a pre 64 M70 300 H&H showed no shift in grouping or POI going from bags to a tight sling, even out to 300 yards and was deadly dependable.OTOH a light custom 257 Roberts I have demands that you man-handle it,draw it in tight and get a firm grip;when it throws a flyer at 300 yards, I know it was me holding it too loosely.

The reason I went to rigid synthetic stocks and floated cut rifle barrels back in 1980 or so,for rifles I traveled and hunted with,was that I found such rifles grouped very consistently, whether from bags or softer positions assumed in the field;and you wrap up in a tight sling as well and POI would not be effected in the least.

Whoever commented that not knowing a rifle's tendency to do these things was spot on when he commented about such behavior causing inexplicable misses in the field.

I saw something like this at the range last fall. The guy next to me was sighting in using a lead sled type rest and 4 bags of shot. He got it where he wanted it, then put the rifle and rest off to the side. Then he shot another rifle off sandbags. After that he went back to the first rifle and shot a group off the sandbags at the same target he started with. It grouped about 4 inches higher and right off the sandbags than off the lead sled. He started mumbling, and was going to adjust the scope, when I told him just for grins to try it off the lead sled again. POI went back to where his first group was...

kcn: All too common IME.....where a guy really can get screwed is if he is unaware of the problem......and then has one of those "inexplicable misses" and wonders "why"?

One reason for this is that a rifle starts moving in recoil before the bullet has ever left the barrel. It amazes me that you can get any kind of group at all unless the rifles moves the exact same amount in the exact same direction each time.

Light weight and heavy recoiling rifles are the most difficult to shoot consistantly. Also, the shooters size and how he or she grips the stock have a lot to do with it.

It is puzzling that we can get rifles to shoot and group as well as we do.

I know sighting in off sandbags, then taking a shot at a deer by resting your rifle forarm against a tree to steady it would more than likely affect the POI.

I don't know if y'all have noticed this , but practically ANY bullet at ANY velocity will have three times the drop between 300 and 400 yards that it has between 200 and 300 yards , assumiong a 200 yard zero .

The 20 in. drop the OP was getting would have grown to a 60 in. drop at 400 yards had he shot it there and had his technique been consistent .

Had he shot the 400 yard range , I'm betting he would NOT have had 60 inches of drop and would have known that the 300 yard dope was bogus .

I am glad you figured it out,because I had no clue and was curious myself as too what caused this.