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Is the 220 to heavy for the 308 for short range elk and bear hunting?
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46gr of W760 yielded 2420 fps from my 20.5" bbl with Hornady 220gr RN. QL calc'd pressure at 61K lbs-psi. I didn't ladder it up.
Saddlesore shoots a lot of elk with them.
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Imo, no!
But also imo, a 200 grainer (which will have a much better BC than the slower moving round-nosed 220 grainers), moving from the mid 2400s to the mid 2500s, will be equally as effective for the short ranges and of course would be better should your shooting distances be greater than expected.
For elk and bear, I don`t see what a 220 grainer could do for you that a 200 grainer could not do or even a good 190 for that matter.
In my over 40 years of hunting using the 30 caliber, I`ve never used a 220 gr bullet.
Better versatility with a 200.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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No its not to heavy. I just dont understand why you would want to go that heavy off a bullet in a 308. you truthfully dont gain anything from using a 220 grain. You wont see any difference in how quick the elk or bear go down. IMHO you would be better off going with a 150 grain Barnes TTSX and if you wanted to go up the 165gr or 168gr. I just dont see any Point of using that heavy of a bullet when you will proble see better results using a premium lighter bullet. But its your rifle and when it comes down it ultimatly comes down to what YOU want. But no a 220 grain is not to heavy for short range elk and bear. it will work fine.
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If you're going to go heavy, the 220 RN is probably the best of the 190-220 range, at least in a magazined rifle. The 190s and 200s tend to be so long that they'll actually take up more space inside the case than will the 220s. There are better all-purpose bullets for the 308 for sure, but I can understand where there may be legitimate uses for the 220 as a short distance load. (Heck, I sometimes load the 280 Swift or 310 Weldcore in my 358.  )
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Imo, no!
But also imo, a 200 grainer (which will have a much better BC than the slower moving round-nosed 220 grainers), moving from the mid 2400s to the mid 2500s, will be equally as effective for the short ranges and of course would be better should your shooting distances be greater than expected.
For elk and bear, I don`t see what a 220 grainer could do for you that a 200 grainer could not do or even a good 190 for that matter.
In my over 40 years of hunting using the 30 caliber, I`ve never used a 220 gr bullet.
Better versatility with a 200.
Well you can say that, because you admit to never using a 220 grain bullet.. having used both, I can tell you that many 200 grain 30 cal bullets are very very hard, so they are better served in a magnum... in a slower velocity rig such as a 308, they will not open up very well at all... however a 220 grain RN will open up right down to around 1400 fps.. and its high sectional density will allow it to penetrate like no tomorrow.. as I understand, the 308 with a 220 grain RN is used quite frequently in Africa for herd control on Elephants by Fish and Game Depts..head shots yeah... but that 220 grain RN will sure penetrate...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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He's good at that, typical California bullshitt. Ask him anything about Alaska, he's a wealth of knowledge there, especially bear charges.
Humm, a 220gr Nosler in a 308 for bear protection whilst out tramping around or fishing. Wonder if that might work, Bigsquish?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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I have never tried the Nosler Partition 220gr in a .308, but from my .30-06 20" tube it rings the steel with more authority than the 150gr NP's do. I'd think that will translate to a pretty hard hit on game.
It's my load for moose, if I can draw a permit!
I have a hard time calling the NP 220gr a "round nose" bullet.
With a BC of .351 and a SD of .331, it ain't a slouch.
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Seafire,
You're using logic and experience to counter speculation and inexperience. Doesn't seem fair.
Last edited by doubletap; 05/06/10. Reason: spelling, what else
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
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It's a great short range load for elk,black bear and hogs as well as deer. Under 100yds I'D say
Last edited by caveman; 05/06/10.
cavey
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Seafire,
You're using logic and experience to counter speculation and inexperience. Doesn't seem fair. Yeah, I get accused of that often.. I have to cut that sort of crap out.. Not to contradict the gentleman who mentioned the Nosler Partition... although not as hard as many of the 200 grain bullets, it is harder than the standard 220 grain RNs.. I'd do some testing with it just to get an idea of where my functional point blank range is at, to be able to penetrate the game I am going after... Its design is called a Semi Pointed... most of the original Partitions were of that design, but folks wanted longer range capabilities, so the partitions were changed to a straight SP... My favorite two partition bullets are the 220 grain 30 cal, and the 160 grain 270 cal... the only two partitions left in that original SMP design.. Sierra and Speer also had some of those design, but they keep getting dropped due to lack of sales...of course they were some of my favorite also... like the Speer 275 grain SMP in 338 bore... or the 100 grain SMP Sierra in 6mm/243 bore... luckily I have a small stash..enough to last me most of my hunting life.. in 22 cal, Speer still has the 70 grain SMP, while Sierra has the 50, 55 and 63 grain SMP..which are at the top of my favorite varmint bullet list... a local guy who has since passed on, was wanting to take a "big bear" as he was putting it, that was raiding his getaway cabin. All he ever hunted with for a rifle was a 30/30... he was asking me about what would I use, claimed to have shot it with a factory 170 grain load and it just pissed the bear off more as he put it.. since I play with that sort of 'what if?" scenarios, he paid for the components for me to experiment with... so I picked up some 220 grain RN Sierra's, and some W 748 powder.... I seated them down so they would cycle thru his model 94, adding a light crimp...it still was a stiff load, but tested it out in my rifle particularly for brass life, ( read pressure limits)... I reloaded the case 5 times and at time 6th, the primer pockets were still tight. The rank was going to be less than 50 yds, a shot being from inside his cabin, when the bear came around again...the load worked... one shot with the 220 grain RN Sierra, dropped the bear...I was not able to observe the results of shot placement of the 220 grain load and the factory 170 grain load that "just pissed him off".... however one shot from the 220 grainer finished off a bear that weighed a hair over 500 lbs...out of a 30/30.. granted it was a 'stout' load, hence why I don't give out the load except in a private PM.... but the 220 grain RN as usual, managed to do its job quite nicely... and if anyone is asking, in testing, I can tell you that if your velocity is going to be low, the Sierra is a better choice than the Hornady 220 RN.. the Hornady is not slouch, it is just the Sierra seems to open up at a lower velocity still than the Hornady..just passing that on... out of an 06 or bigger, then are pretty interchangable...accurate and effective..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Seafire, that 220 should work good in that 308 win. What kind of speed would i get out of a 23.5 pipe? Thanks
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Campfire Kahuna
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Ain't like the 220 hasn't worked for years in both the 308 and 06.... Can't argue with that. well I guess idiots could.
I'd pick something else too personally, but it wouldn't be light either.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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He's good at that, typical California bullshitt. Ask him anything about Alaska, he's a wealth of knowledge there, especially bear charges.
Humm, a 220gr Nosler in a 308 for bear protection whilst out tramping around or fishing. Wonder if that might work, Bigsquish? ...........Ya know what Steelhead? You are quite the big im-mature azzhole!!! Get your butt down here and open up your mouth right in front of my face! It will be re-arranged for you before you`ll even know it!!!...Guttless clown!!!
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Schitt guys....how bout we all just keep the name calling and personal stuff in pm's and keep discussing the OP's question. Id say the 220gr would be fine in the 308 if you know your loads limits and adhere to it or close to it. Seriously, If you wanna shoot 220's, load up some test loads, try them out and see how they work. Everyone is going to have their own opinion and idea of what the phrase "will it work" means.
Proverbs 12:27
The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.
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Campfire Oracle
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He's good at that, typical California bullshitt. Ask him anything about Alaska, he's a wealth of knowledge there, especially bear charges.
Humm, a 220gr Nosler in a 308 for bear protection whilst out tramping around or fishing. Wonder if that might work, Bigsquish? ...........Ya know what Steelhead? You are quite the big im-mature azzhole!!! Get your butt down here and open up your mouth right in front of my face! It will be re-arranged for you before you`ll even know it!!!...Guttless clown!!! Not one to bring my butt to some dude from California asking for it. Have fun in San Fran this weekend cupcake.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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He's good at that, typical California bullshitt. Ask him anything about Alaska, he's a wealth of knowledge there, especially bear charges.
Humm, a 220gr Nosler in a 308 for bear protection whilst out tramping around or fishing. Wonder if that might work, Bigsquish? ...........Ya know what Steelhead? You are quite the big im-mature azzhole!!! Get your butt down here and open up your mouth right in front of my face! It will be re-arranged for you before you`ll even know it!!!...Guttless clown!!! Not one to bring my butt to some dude from California asking for it. Have fun in San Fran this weekend cupcake. .........Like I say, you`re guttless and im-mature! I`m 400+ miles south FROM San Fran. Your geography among many other things, also needs to be improved. C`mon down! You`ll be "pleasantly" surprised. A cupcake like you`ve never had before! I taught "arts" for 22+ years. Ya know,,,those arts!! My ex partner and I (still friends btw) owned 4 "arts" studios from `81 to `03. Let`s see now. We taught fingerpainting, air brushing, and all kinds of "arts." As our students progressed, they recieved "belts" of different colors!!! So c`mon down Steelhead!!........You`ll go back home with a new respect for,,,,,,a Calif cupcake!
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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I've personally never tried a 220 gr in the .308 Win (and it's been a long time since I owned a .308). I am a big fan of the 220 gr round nose in the .30-06, FWIW.
Seems to me that the .30-40 Krag with 220 gr bullets and the .303 British with 215 gr bullets (both at around 2000-2100 fps muzzle velocity) had pretty good reputations back in the day for being reliable game getters.
Winchester used to a load a 200 gr in the .308 Win with a stated muzzle velocity of 2450 fps (24" barrel). I'd bet a 308 Win could easily push a 220 gr bullet to around 2250-2300 fps.
Just my musings....
-Bob F.
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I use a load which drives 220's at 2335 in my 30/40 (not a Krag rifle). The elk I shot with this hit the ground so hard he bounced! I think 220's are a good choice if one likes the reliable performance of heavy round nose bullets. Just like 160's in a 6.5, they expand reliably and penetrate well.
Starting out at 2300-2400 fps, they shoot flat enough to make 300 yard shots possible if necessary but they are best at 200 and under. GD
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I've personally never tried a 220 gr in the .308 Win (and it's been a long time since I owned a .308). I am a big fan of the 220 gr round nose in the .30-06, FWIW.
Seems to me that the .30-40 Krag with 220 gr bullets and the .303 British with 215 gr bullets (both at around 2000-2100 fps muzzle velocity) had pretty good reputations back in the day for being reliable game getters.
Winchester used to a load a 200 gr in the .308 Win with a stated muzzle velocity of 2450 fps (24" barrel). I'd bet a 308 Win could easily push a 220 gr bullet to around 2250-2300 fps.
Just my musings....
-Bob F. You would be absolutely right. I have one of the earlier Loadbooks for the .308 win. that gices a fair amount of data for 220 gr. bullets in the .308. Later editions no longer have that dats which I feel is a mistake. Of all the data shown, most suitable powders will give loads in the 2250 FPS range, give of take a few FPS. The one standout was W-760 so I decided to play a little with it, more out of curiosity than anything else. First the data. The powder is W-760. Starting load is 42.0 gr. for 2244 FPS at 42,000 PSI. The maximum load is 44.0 gr. for 2295 FPS at 46,900 PSI. Note the low pressure figures. I worked up to the max load with the Sierra 220 gr. RN and the Hornady 220 gr. RN. Early on the Sierra was proving to be the more accurate bullet. Final chronographed velocity figure from two rifles, a Ruger RSI tang safety with 18.5" barrel and a Winchester M70 push feed with 22" barrel. The Ruger averaged 2250 FPS with both bullets with accuracy barely usable. To be fair, that rifle has ben srictly a one trick pony, only shooting 165 gr. Speer Hot-cores with any decency. Te Winchester on the other hand gave an average velocity of 2310 FPS and one inch groups with the Hornady bullet and .375" with the Sierras. Amzing as supposedly, the .308 is no good with the heavier bullets and two, 1 in 12" twist .30 caliber barrels are not supposed to be able to handle 220 gr. bullets. Maybe tht might be true with spitzer and spitzer boat tail bullets but it sure did put those Sierras into a nicely crowded group. So much for some of the BS found in some gun rags. That's the results I got in my experimentation with those bullets. Considering how low the pressure is reputed to be, based on the book, I've often wondered just much farther I could push it? I'd probably not use th Ruger the next time and concentrate on what that Winchester will do. Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
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Is the 220 to heavy for the 308 for short range elk and bear hunting? Heck no they arent too heavy for what you want to do with them. One of my favorite bullets for that work is a 180 gr. round nose in a 270 Win. The things look like torpedoes and they drop em dead.
" A little solitude is a mighty precious thing "
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I did it with an -06 years and years ago. My uncle was convinced they were better "brush busters" than anything else out there. I do know that round nosers seem to whack them pretty hard. They even sound different on impact... Its a deeper pitched 'THWOCK' than you get with spitzers. Oh, it kills big Muleys and Whiteys just fine. Never got around to trying them on Elk and Bears. Also, it seemed in my limited sample of 10 or so critters that there was less bloodshot meat, if thats a concern. Here in Montana, I hunt Elk and Bears with good Ol' Schoo' 165 grain Partitions
I'm Irish...
Of course I know how to patch drywall
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Campfire Oracle
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He's good at that, typical California bullshitt. Ask him anything about Alaska, he's a wealth of knowledge there, especially bear charges.
Humm, a 220gr Nosler in a 308 for bear protection whilst out tramping around or fishing. Wonder if that might work, Bigsquish? ...........Ya know what Steelhead? You are quite the big im-mature azzhole!!! Get your butt down here and open up your mouth right in front of my face! It will be re-arranged for you before you`ll even know it!!!...Guttless clown!!! Not one to bring my butt to some dude from California asking for it. Have fun in San Fran this weekend cupcake. .........Like I say, you`re guttless and im-mature! I`m 400+ miles south FROM San Fran. Your geography among many other things, also needs to be improved. C`mon down! You`ll be "pleasantly" surprised. A cupcake like you`ve never had before! I taught "arts" for 22+ years. Ya know,,,those arts!! My ex partner and I (still friends btw) owned 4 "arts" studios from `81 to `03. Let`s see now. We taught fingerpainting, air brushing, and all kinds of "arts." As our students progressed, they recieved "belts" of different colors!!! So c`mon down Steelhead!!........You`ll go back home with a new respect for,,,,,,a Calif cupcake! Compelling, guess you didn't know you could drive or fly to San Fran ass wipe. I do like your use of the word 'partner', I bet he was REAL nice. What a POS you are.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Mr. Steelhead!!!
I wish that someday or somehow, you`ll have the opportunity to express your many insults about me up close and in person.
On this thread, I stated nothing to warrant or deserve your comment about me in your earlier post. You of course, exaggerated and deliberately lied about the claim, that I somehow have a "wealth of knowledge" about Alaska, bear charges and otherwise, when I never made any such claim or commented as such. Where is that quote from me? Let`s see it!!
Your added insults about me having fun in San Fran (been there only four times only at the airport for lay-overs), me being a Calif cupcake, a POS, your additional comment about my ex-business partner and good friend and all the rest of it, are nothing more than a very clear indication of the fact, that you have never quite grown up!
You are very boyish, extremely im-mature, someone who obviously cannot engage in any real mature debate and someone who intentionally twists things around and lies just to satisfy his own little agenda. And by doing so via your insults, you really think that you are getting the best of me??? If anything, all you are really doing is making a bigger azz out of yourself and not me which is your real intention.
It is real easy to type insults, exaggerations and lies on a keyboard to someone who is hundreds or thousands of miles away. It is quite another to say these same insults directly to one`s face. That is an opportunity Steelhead,,,that you will never, never, never, ever, want to ever have with me my friend!....Never!
So from now on, if you happen to read something posted by me that you happen to disagree with, can you keep your insults to yourself?? Because I don`t intend on lowering my standards down to your level and follow you around on different threads and making similar comments to you or about you!!!
So let`s end all this now and simply put each other on ignore shall we!! Can you do that?? Or is that too difficult for you??
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Steelhead or BigSqueeze;
do the rest of us really need to be exposed to all of this??
if you guys have any differences, how about ironing it out on your own, instead of flooding and corrupting the thread with personal slanders and innuendos? the rest of us really don't long on here to listen to this type of BS...
I am sure you are both decent guys... so how about working out your differences as decent guys, instead of like a bunch of 3rd graders on a playground...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Steelhead or BigSqueeze;
do the rest of us really need to be exposed to all of this??
if you guys have any differences, how about ironing it out on your own, instead of flooding and corrupting the thread with personal slanders and innuendos? the rest of us really don't long on here to listen to this type of BS...
I am sure you are both decent guys... so how about working out your differences as decent guys, instead of like a bunch of 3rd graders on a playground... +1...Thats what I was trying to say earlier. Thanks Seafire
Proverbs 12:27
The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.
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I haven't shot 220gr out of a .308 yet, but i would think a little testing to make sure it is stabilized out to your max working distance would be called for. IIRC most .308s are 1/12 twist.....which may or may not stabilize the 220gr RN....just some food for thought. that is why most 30-06 are 1/10 twist...so they can reliably stabilize the heavier bullets. the military went with a 1/11.25 twist to stabiliz the 175gr SMK....which i would think is close to the minimum twist required for the 220gr RN.
advntrjnky
8mm-06 = perfection
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a good 165gr (accubond, partition, innerbond, TSX, etc) will tip moose (never shot an elk) and black bear over just fine our of a 308. seen it happen many times from 10 to 300yrds. don't see the reason why you'd want to go to a 220... but if you HAD to, I'm sure it would work just fine. 174gr @ 2400fps (303brit) kill moose and bear just fine out to 200yrds.
The Mountains Are Calling And I Must Go
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I haven't shot 220gr out of a .308 yet, but i would think a little testing to make sure it is stabilized out to your max working distance would be called for. IIRC most .308s are 1/12 twist.....which may or may not stabilize the 220gr RN....just some food for thought. that is why most 30-06 are 1/10 twist...so they can reliably stabilize the heavier bullets. the military went with a 1/11.25 twist to stabiliz the 175gr SMK....which i would think is close to the minimum twist required for the 220gr RN.
advntrjnky I suggest you eread my post concerning my experimentation with 220 gr. bullets in the .308. Results, especially withthe 220 gr. Sierra round nose were a complete surprise. Velocity was only 90 FPS slower than factory advertised speeds for the 30-06 with the same bullet weight. Seems to me that should be sufficient for the ranges one normally shoots a 220 gr. bullet. IIRC, it was W.D.M. Karamojo" Bell who once opiced that the perfect (for him) elephant gun just might be the .308 Win. with FMJ 220 gr. bullets at 2250 FPS. I know about the 30-06 and the 1 in 10" twist being standard yet IIRC, at one time I believe it was Browning that used a 1 in 12" twist in their 30-06 rifles. The late Jack O'Connor had a 30-06 with 1 in 12" twist and thought it to be just fine with all bullet weights. As I am one who probably shoot about 100 cast bullets for every jacketed bullet, I had a commercial FN Mauser that had a badly corroded barrel rebarreled with a 1 in 12" barrel for cast bullet shooting. When the controversy showed up again by a gun writer who stated that 220 gr. bullets would not be stabilized by a 1 in 12" twist, I loaded up and shot some in my rifle which has a 24" 1 in 12" Douglas barrel built for me by the late Cal Albright back around 1975 or 76. Groups ran right at 1.25" at 100 yards and right at 2.0" at 200 yards. Again, so much for all the BS about a 1 in 12" twist in the 30-06. No my comments stand using 220 gr. round nose bullets. When it comes to the somewhat longer 220 spitzer and spitzer boat tail types, I might tend to agree that they might not stabilize. With bullet and powder prices what they are today, I'm not sure I want to spend the bucks trying to prove that one way or the other. I do think that the 220 gr. Spitzers would be too long in a .308, and if they did work in the 30-06 that they would be borderline. JMHO. Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
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PJGunner
I didn't mean to sound contrary. My only point was that a 220gr RN in a 1/12" .308 should probably be verified (at distance) as being adequately stabilized before being relied on for possible dangerous game.
8mm-06 = perfection
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I loaded some 220 RNs to 1050 fps in my 1/12 308. They were about 2 moa accurate at 100 yards, and wobbling into the target. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Loading/Img_7537.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/308%20Targets/Img_7724.jpg) At 2400 fps they were fine.
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Campfire Tracker
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Husqvarna 30-06 rifles come standard with 1:12 twist barrels. I have owned at least a dozen of them over the years, still have two, and they all handle 220 gr loads without any problem at all.
Ted
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this is some good info guys. thanks! I'm not apprehensive about trying the 220 rn now.
advntrjnky
8mm-06 = perfection
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What about a 308 with a 1-10 twist?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You seem to have a lot of built up anger. As a teacher of "arts" you'd think you'd know how to deal with that.
All of the "arts" classes I've had, you know, the one's with the colored belts... Taught us to remain calm in these types of situations, and not be the agressor and instagator. You must have missed that part in your calss huh?
Camp is where you make it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Paul.
"Kids who grow up hunting, fishing & trapping, do not mug little old Ladies"
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PJGunner
I didn't mean to sound contrary. My only point was that a 220gr RN in a 1/12" .308 should probably be verified (at distance) as being adequately stabilized before being relied on for possible dangerous game. Good point only I doubt I'd be shooting at dangerous game at extended ranges. Probably would be more like up close and personal.  My point was you keep hering gunwriter BS that you can't get good rsults from a .308 with the heavier bullets because of not nough velocity and two, a 1 in 12" twist will not stabilize those bullets. Apparently, at least in my rifles I have proved to my satisfaction that those comment just are not true. I will concede that most likely the longer spitzer 220 gr. bullet won't work in a 1 in 12", at least until I can load up some and try them. I honestly expect those will probably keyhole, maybe even at 100 yards. But then I follow Sierra's caveat to not use Matchkings for hunting. Who know? I might be surprised. It's just that I've heard so many times over the years that this won't work or, you can't do that that these days, just for the hell of it I try and see if I can do this or that. Most of the time I can't but some of the time? Surprise, it can be done. Nothing more than satisfying my own curiousity. Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
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I agree about the mis-information, which sucks because i don't have unlimited funds to test it all for myself......I wish companies would just tell us the tested/verified min. RPMs needed to stabilize their bullets. after that it's just doing some math to decide on component/load development start points.
advntrjnky
8mm-06 = perfection
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Campfire Outfitter
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You seem to have a lot of built up anger. As a teacher of "arts" you'd think you'd know how to deal with that.
All of the "arts" classes I've had, you know, the one's with the colored belts... Taught us to remain calm in these types of situations, and not be the agressor and instagator. You must have missed that part in your calss huh? ................Tzone........After my last post nearly a week ago on the 9th, I would have thought this would have ended with no further comment from anyone. I guess not uh? It seemed to be going that way until today! Perhaps you need to go back and re-read the thread, starting with Steelhead`s first comments about me as well as his other insults down the line. I don`t consider my comments, as you seem to think, as "built up anger." I instead, consider them as not only defending myself, but challenging my accuser with his deliberate exaggerations and lies as well. If you think my comments were an anger build up on my part, then the only thing I can do is to tell you that you are mistaken! And btw, I can deal with anger very well. Given my background and experience, I have no other choice!
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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I've tried quite a few powders with 220s in the 308. RL17 has probably produced the best velocity with the least signs of pressure. In the rifle in which I tried it, velocity exceeded factory 30-06 220 velocity (2,420 fps). Barrel was 22"
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I like heavier bullets,kind of one shot one kill guy. Seeing a deer dying and crying ain't pretty. I had a box of Nosler Partition 30 220 gr in reloading cabinet. Everyone told me I need at least 1:10 twist on my 308 rifle to stabilize the bullets. Well, hinting season is coming, so I loaded 40 rounds with different powder weight. I shot them on 100 meters from Sauer 202 with 26" barel and 1:11 twist. Shooting 10 sets of 3 through a MagnetoSpeed Chrony. To my surprise average group of the 10 sets was 0.56 MOA. Best group, 0.32 MOA came from a set loaded with 40.7 grains of IMR 4064 with Federal Match 210M primers at 2,328. Bullet depth 2.81". Second best group, 0.38 MOA was from a set loaded with 38.7 grains of IMR 4064 at 2,235 f/s. Will try at 300 yards tomorrow. [img:center] ![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/538/45WF8N.jpg) [/img]
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Great necropsy reanimation! It is Alive!  Prompted me to PM Seafire for secret recipes.
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/imagejpg1_zps585f4bbf.jpg)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Bigsqueeze was a very angry person before he died.
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Campfire Tracker
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Bigsqueeze was a very angry person before he died. How did he die and when? Thought he was hunter1960's good-natured doppelg�nger! Faux Shaux!
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted
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Seafire,
You're using logic and experience to counter speculation and inexperience. Doesn't seem fair. Yeah, I get accused of that often.. I have to cut that sort of crap out.. Not to contradict the gentleman who mentioned the Nosler Partition... although not as hard as many of the 200 grain bullets, it is harder than the standard 220 grain RNs.. I'd do some testing with it just to get an idea of where my functional point blank range is at, to be able to penetrate the game I am going after... Its design is called a Semi Pointed... most of the original Partitions were of that design, but folks wanted longer range capabilities, so the partitions were changed to a straight SP... My favorite two partition bullets are the 220 grain 30 cal, and the 160 grain 270 cal... the only two partitions left in that original SMP design.. Sierra and Speer also had some of those design, but they keep getting dropped due to lack of sales...of course they were some of my favorite also... like the Speer 275 grain SMP in 338 bore... or the 100 grain SMP Sierra in 6mm/243 bore... luckily I have a small stash..enough to last me most of my hunting life.. in 22 cal, Speer still has the 70 grain SMP, while Sierra has the 50, 55 and 63 grain SMP..which are at the top of my favorite varmint bullet list... a local guy who has since passed on, was wanting to take a "big bear" as he was putting it, that was raiding his getaway cabin. All he ever hunted with for a rifle was a 30/30... he was asking me about what would I use, claimed to have shot it with a factory 170 grain load and it just pissed the bear off more as he put it.. since I play with that sort of 'what if?" scenarios, he paid for the components for me to experiment with... so I picked up some 220 grain RN Sierra's, and some W 748 powder.... I seated them down so they would cycle thru his model 94, adding a light crimp...it still was a stiff load, but tested it out in my rifle particularly for brass life, ( read pressure limits)... I reloaded the case 5 times and at time 6th, the primer pockets were still tight. The rank was going to be less than 50 yds, a shot being from inside his cabin, when the bear came around again...the load worked... one shot with the 220 grain RN Sierra, dropped the bear...I was not able to observe the results of shot placement of the 220 grain load and the factory 170 grain load that "just pissed him off".... however one shot from the 220 grainer finished off a bear that weighed a hair over 500 lbs...out of a 30/30.. granted it was a 'stout' load, hence why I don't give out the load except in a private PM.... but the 220 grain RN as usual, managed to do its job quite nicely... and if anyone is asking, in testing, I can tell you that if your velocity is going to be low, the Sierra is a better choice than the Hornady 220 RN.. the Hornady is not slouch, it is just the Sierra seems to open up at a lower velocity still than the Hornady..just passing that on... out of an 06 or bigger, then are pretty interchangable...accurate and effective.. I tried getting Hornady 220's to shoot in my Marlin 336 30-30 once. They keyholed. Maybe the micro groove had something to do with that?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I was able to make them to shoot in both a Marlin and a Model 94....MV was 2100 fps with a stiff charge of W 748... but reloaded those 5 cases 10 times each and the primers went in tight on the 11th time...so if there was added pressure, it didn't seem to hurt anything...
one of those don't try this at home things.. unless you know what you are doing...
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Bigsqueeze was a very angry person before he died. According to him, and for the common good of "Joe Public" he says, his anger has subsided as of late. However, somehow inexplicably his threats continue. Of course mentioning this will undoubtedly bring an invite to SoCal so he can protect his honor............His must be a lonely life. I simply can't imagine how invaluable a single pic of Bigliar displaying one of his many accomplishments would be to the 'fire and his credibility; just one............
Suck bullets simply suck.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It'd swipe away ALL of her Imagination and Pretend,so she goes to great lengths to make sure it don't happen...and burst them bubbles.
Cyber Judy Chop to you.
Laughing!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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cutnshoot good question,decent thread till sniping and personal attacks started. Saddlesore has built the same interest of heavy rn's in my mind also. I am going to do the same with 220 gr Hornady's for my 03 Springfield. Lotta time in different hunts I make, you simply are limited to 200 yds or less from the terrain. Enough guys here say they work, it's time to find out for yourself with your own experiences. It's to bad that on the fire the innate need to experience some of the accepted ways of the past are allways put down, discarded for a recommendation to use the latest xyz wonder product.
Seafire, I've shot Noslers a long time and have never seen a box labled semi-pointed. Now I've shot more than a few Noslers that were labled semi spitzers. Magnum Man
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Stupid is never smart.
Please fill out a Hurt Feelers Report,then Whine some more...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Some things never change.
Nice to be able to bank on the long term humor quotient...................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The hell with ping-pong balls, I wanna roll .30-30 bowling balls in my unscoped, pre-AE Trapper. May slide in a trick XS Cowboy Express front sight to up my optics.
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'd poke a dot of repute on 'er and rock the schit out of a Sleeper...on the sly..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Never in a .308 as my standard feed for my 88 is a 165 gr Sierra GK or a 180 gr Sierra RN. Mostly a muley round ,but did kill some elk with it years ago.
I have been using the 220 gr Sierra RN for quite a few years, if not many years in my .06. Probably velocity is about 2600 + or-. It's been a few years since I chronographed them. I loaded up 200 rounds probably 7-8 years ago and still have about 180 left. That is more than a life time supply for me at my age and I still have few boxes of Sierra 180 gr GK to use. Not to get into another discussion, or argument with the professionals around here, but that is why I recently had a brake installed on my .06 so I could use those loads.
I don't know why every one keeps saying it is a short range bullet. I have killed elk with them from 15 yards to 300 yards and some change. This was verified with a Lieca Range Finder.
A few years ago, I think Mule Deer had an article and in it he stated he could not see why anyone would use the 220gr and he didn't have a use for it. The 200 gr did just as well. It might very well be true. However, I have tipped over quite a few elk with the 220 grain Sierra RN and it does so with authority .So I won't try to fix something that isn't broke for me.
If you can develope a load for it in a .308 ,go for it. It will more than suffice for elk.
Last edited by saddlesore; 08/31/14.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You are at the mercy of what you THINK you "know"...which of course is the only ingredient required for hilarity.
Myths and Wives Tales die lingering deaths,as Clueless Window Lickers cling to 'em fiercely.
Congratulations?..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Well I will go on and continue killing elk with my old wives tales and myths. Strange, of all the grief you give people, we never see any photos of elk that you have actually killed. Fact is all I can ever remember are holes in paper that you post.
When you get to the point that you are approaching 4 dozen elk kills, come back around and you can play with the big boys. Until that time, I'd advise you to join the ranks of the window lickers that you so commonly refer to.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Laughing!
Yanking plug wires out from under the hood and sawing legs off Ponies,are "great" approaches commensurate with your Bullet Stupidity.
Not many Elk here in Kansas,within the corn fields.
Bless your heart...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Well I will give it to you that you are a constant source of entertainment to many here.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Simply a shame,that the big picture is beyond your pointy head to grasp.
Laughing!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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SCHTICK IS AWESOME... he's the most mighty guy on the entire WWW!
he's done more and accomplished more than anyone else on the entire planet! and has done it all, while being no taller than Mickey Mouse!
ya gotta admire a guy like that....
he's got a PhD in Braggin'.....from good ol' F.U.
thanks Fairbanks University you sickos....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've no need to brag and am at ease with facts.
Your Whine is Bitchin'!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I've no need to brag and am at ease with facts.
Your Whine is Bitchin'!............. keep telling yourself that there Schmucklette.... I promise I'll believe ya if no one else will...  no honestly...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Personally the 200 gr would be my limit in the 308 Win
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It is a fascinating constant,that the less one shoots...the more they fret "weight".
Which is poignantly pointed out by the pointy-heads,here....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have used the 220 CL in the .30-06 for moose. But mostly, in non magnum .30's, I run 150's .
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Have shot them all and weight is moot.
Hint...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Requested and for those interested in Reloading Data for the 220 grain RN in a 308:
308 Win, and 220 grain RN Load data
Hodgdon Powders
1. H 4831 43grs......1983 fps 47 grs....2286 fps
2. H4350 43grs.......2142 fps 46 grs.....2369 fps
3. H414 40.5 grs...2110 fps 44 grs......2289 fps
4. H380 39.5 grs.....2118 fps 43 grs......2286 fps
5. BLC2 35 grs........2080 fps 38 grs......2240 fps
6. H 335 34 grs.... 2047 fps 36 grs......2216 fps
7. H4895 34 grs.....2014 fps 37 grs.....2224 fps
IMR Powders
1. 4831 43 grs......2009 fps 45 grs......2176 fps
2. 4350 42 grs.....2094 fps 44 grs.......2229 fps
3. 4320 35 grs.......2040 fps 37 grs...... 2141 fps
4. 4895 34 grs......2007 fps 36 grs......2164 fps
5. 4064 35 grs.....2036 fps 37 grs......2154 fps
Winchester Powders
1. W 760 42 grs...... 2177 fps 44 grs......2295 fps
2. W 748 36 grs.......2111 fps 38 grs....2232 fps
Alliant Powders
1. RL 19 42 grs......2090 fps 45 grs......2181 fps
2. RL 15 36 grs.......2119 fps 39 grs.......2236 fps
3. RL 12 34 grs......1989 fps 37 grs.....2149 fps
All of these loads are safe and pressure tested...bullet seated to cannelure...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Neato!
Perhaps submit a recipe on how to burn back strap too.
Laughing!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Why does it anger you so? Still pathetic.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Now Hilarity is construed via your crossed-eyes and pointy-head as "anger"?!?
There is no end to depths of you poor poor Clueless Phuqs' incredible STUPIDITY!
Wow.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Taking another [bleep] on the fire, huh Stick? Or is it the usual noise coming from you? Keep it down; I can hear the slurping sounds from here.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Taking another [bleep] on the fire, huh Stick? Or is it the usual noise coming from you? Keep it down; I can hear the slurping sounds from here. It's your Imagination,Pretend with it however you please and play whatever movies are your cup of tea...in your pointy-head. Congratulations?.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You really need to take your meds on time..Poor thing.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I keep telling you, Stick: nobody wants to hear your abuse. NOBODY. If you can't play nice, leave the playground. A bunch of us are trying to have meaningful interactions sharing our interests, while attempting to learn a few things.
Please follow the social cues. Hint.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Neato!
Perhaps submit a recipe on how to burn back strap too.
Laughing!.................. That data is out of the Hodgdon Manual # 26 there Mushmellon Brains...does sharing it with campfire members who might be interested in it offend you? Well of course it does, because YOU didn't post it.... and it burns your ego and insecurities to think that there is information shared on the campfire and it didn't come from you... TFF..... but hey, I find your antics highly entertaining...don't ever change.....you're like Daffy Duck, Yosemite Sam and Elmer Fudd, all rolled into one character.. pure comedic genius!!!!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You really need to take your meds on time..Poor thing. She plays the movies,that she most wants to see. Laughing!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I keep telling you, Stick: nobody wants to hear your abuse. NOBODY. If you can't play nice, leave the playground. A bunch of us are trying to have meaningful interactions sharing our interests, while attempting to learn a few things.
Please follow the social cues. Hint. You are Cock Talking,as per your usual. WTF could you "learn",given the incredible depths of your dumbphuqqtitude? Use your Imagination and Pretend something. Laughing!....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Your innate ability to be totally phuqqing CLUELESS is simply amazing.
Fascinating how far over the top of your pointy-head,the most simplistic things sail.
Congratulations?...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Myron???? Is that you? Yeah I remember you from 7th grade................................never quite 'graduated' from junior high, didja?
Pity
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's your Imagination,Pretend with it as you please.
Just be SURE to do so aloud.
Laughing!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I've not shot many 220gr 30 cals, but I have questions for you guys who have shot many: there are obvious differences in toughness between makers, yes? Is there any consensus on the order of toughness? Earlier in the post, Sierras were characterized as tougher than Hornadys. How do these compare to Remingtons? Obviously, Noslers are going to rate toughest, but where do the other 3 scale?
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Tough to scoot a 220 fast,then their NERF Ping Pong Ball form,acts as a parachute.
But they recoil more,and that swoons dumb phuqqers...reliably.
Laughing!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Tough to scoot a 220 fast,then their NERF Ping Pong Ball form,acts as a parachute.
But they recoil more,and that swoons dumb phuqqers...reliably.
Laughing!..............
Said by someone who obviously HASN'T shot many of them.... your lack of experience is showing there Schmucklette...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Cite the "fast" one,wearing the "good" BC.
Laughing!
You poor poor STUPID phuqq,you couldn't even begin to fathom.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Your innate ability to be totally phuqqing CLUELESS is simply amazing.
Fascinating how far over the top of your pointy-head,the most simplistic things sail.
Congratulations?................... Same old worn out material there Schmucklette.... Your groupies are getting bored and disappointed, that you don't have any new insult material.... and beg to differ.. but if anyone around here has the market cornered on clueless, well they happen to live at your house/shack/outhouse...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Facts are facts.
That despite your inability to savvy.
Bless your heart..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
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Cite the "fast" one,wearing the "good" BC.
Laughing!
You poor poor STUPID phuqq,you couldn't even begin to fathom................. Well Moronathon.... I've taken several deer back in the Midwest, with a 220 grain out of an 06, shot on the opposite side of a swamp from where I was... and that was a little over 300 yds ranged....its called knowing your equipment... but then you heard that somewhere I am sure.. small dime sized hole going in, small one coming out... and the vitals looked like they had been stirred with a chain saw... but then AGAIN, you think if you didn't do it, it can't be done... hard to fit an ego, low self esteem and common sense all into one watermelon you carry between your ears, ain't it...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Cite the "fast" one,wearing the "good" BC.
Laughing!
You poor poor STUPID phuqq,you couldn't even begin to fathom................. Well Moronathon.... I've taken several deer back in the Midwest, with a 220 grain out of an 06, shot on the opposite side of a swamp from where I was... and that was a little over 300 yds ranged....its called knowing your equipment... but then you heard that somewhere I am sure.. small dime sized hole going in, small one coming out... and the vitals looked like they had been stirred with a chain saw... but then AGAIN, you think if you didn't do it, it can't be done... hard to fit an ego, low self esteem and common sense all into one watermelon you carry between your ears, ain't it... To be fair - you've NOT cited a good BC 220 grain round .308 bullet moving at any speed.
Me
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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She won't,if only because she can't.
Pretend ain't "real"...despite her best efforts................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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H&S,
The Core Lokt 220's are the softest and open the quickest but I've still put them through a moose broadside. The Hornady 220's are too tough in my estimation and we've had trouble getting them to open up properly on deer even loaded hot, but that was in a 7600 Carbine.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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She won't,if only because she can't.
Pretend ain't "real"...despite her best efforts................(grin) Keep trying there Schmucklette.... ya can't keep striking out if you are just sittin on the bench... ya always get an A for effort, even if you get an F for results..
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'm afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess and patiently await more of your Pretend,conjured by your Imagination.
Spare no "mercy".
Laughing!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
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To be fair - you've NOT cited a good BC 220 grain round .308 bullet moving at any speed. Well Teal, who does it really have to be 'proven' to? you personally ask a legitimate question, I'll more than happily give you an answer... .of course whatever I say, Schmucklette will use it as material to piss on it, so does it really matter? Marines trained in pre WW 1 to shoot 220 grain Round Noses out of their Springfields out to 800 yds plus...get that weight moving, it is hard to stop...or slow down quickly... but in my hunting I preferred the 220 RN back in my northern MN & Wisconsin Hunting...out of my good old A Bolt 06... it was always zeroed at 3.5 inches high at 100...and a few little ballistic marks on the old scope, 300 to 400 yds wasn't a real problem... spend a little time practicing....it wasn't that hard in reality... everything has a trajectory when it is shot out of a rifle.. you just follow the trajectory charts, which are pretty accurate in my experience... bullets were Sierras, and MV was at 2500 if that is a concern... SD: 331, BC: 300...3.5 inch zero at 100, about an 8 inch drop at 300 yds...one can find that out from a couple of reload manuals.. of course Schmucklette will claim no one can hit something at 300 yds with a 220 grain RN, while he brags that he can shoot eggs at 500 and 600 yds...so what does that tell us? No ONE but Schtick can shoot accurately past 50 yds, without his presence....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess and patiently await more of your Pretend,conjured by your Imagination.
Spare no "mercy".
Laughing!............. you are 'afforded' the 'luxury'....????? your personna and the concept of "Luxury"... ya gotta be kiddin me Schmuck.... I'd bet you are still using the old Sears & Roebuck catalog for TP in your outhouse...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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No need to reiterate the obvious,that you are a Whining Clueless Drooling Phuqq.
Not that you could NOT.
Laughing!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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No need to reiterate the obvious,that you are a Whining Clueless Drooling Phuqq.
Not that you could NOT.
Laughing!................. Well Schmucklette, however you want to portray me in your homo fantasies, go ahead and knock yourself out... we can see you are into the Domimatrix thing... I bet you love looking in the mirror and seeing yourself in one of those leather girdles with the push up bra, and garters and the fish net stockings...and borrowing some of your teenage daughters bright red lipstick.... you stud muffin you...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's your Imagination,Pretend with it however you must.
No need to reiterate the obvious,that you are a Whining Clueless Drooling Phuqq.
Not that you could NOT.
Laughing!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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AWWWWW Schticklette.... am I bursting your fantasy bubble for this evening???
have another bottle of Ripple.. you'll feel better...
at least until tomorrow morning, that is...
but I am sure you can't remember the last morning you woke up without a hangover.....
probably was the last time you spent 30 days in the county can...
I am pretty sure that couldn't have been that long ago... a party animal like you....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It's your Imagination,Pretend with it as you please.
Just be SURE to do so aloud.
Laughing!............... You may be correct......but you leave so little to one's imagination with your "pretending". (Gosh it must be a lot of work to pretend you're still - perpetually- in the budding adolescent world..........or NOT!)
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Shefire,
I should be charging you rent...for all of the space I take up in your mind.
Laughing!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Klik',
Pretend about rifles again,it crack me the phuqq up,when you do your best and put Imagination to keyboard.
Somewhat disappointing,that you Clueless Whining Kchunts keep "forgetting" about your sensationalized Imaginary Pretend Ignore.
But it sure as hell is funny!
Bless your heart.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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H&S,
The Core Lokt 220's are the softest and open the quickest but I've still put them through a moose broadside. The Hornady 220's are too tough in my estimation and we've had trouble getting them to open up properly on deer even loaded hot, but that was in a 7600 Carbine.
I've only ever shot the Core-Lokt 220's, that I can recall. It seemed they were very, very soft, like 30-30 soft. I knew someone who used the Hornady for timber hunting, in 30-06 and he thought they were really hard. I recall he made comments about them being tough enough for dangerous game and talked about shooting through modest pines to see if he could stop one. That was a long time ago. I don't know of anyone who uses the big PT's.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Tough to Trump a rumor.
Laughing!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'd poke a dot of repute on 'er and rock the schit out of a Sleeper...on the sly.............. This thread has taken off since you posted this, but had to find these pics on an old post of mine from '09. Shows you your mind is great. My youngest was 15 then. [img:left] ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/SHOT%20stuff/imagejpg2_zps04a9a067.jpg) [/img] This rascal was cut to 12-in. LOP and Wild West Guns Scout rail for my oldest son c. '99. The T1 was a recent acquisition when these shots were taken in '09. [img:left] ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/SHOT%20stuff/imagejpg1_zps39fa6762.jpg) [/img] I was happy as Hell w this MOWT group, but never got to show it to a WT and the sight migrated elsewhere. May move her back and dial in M79 dope for 220s with Seafire's recipe... [img:left] ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/SHOT%20stuff/imagejpg3_zpsd6a270b3.jpg) [/img]
Last edited by ColdCase1984; 09/02/14.
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Just might have a 'dot or two kicking around the house,myself...............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 42,746 |
Shefire,
I should be charging you rent...for all of the space I take up in your mind.
Laughing!.................. You can fit a gnat's azz in the space you take up in my mind... Talking to you is more akin to taking a dump...something important to do daily, but not something you think about much, but it allows you to deal with Schitt daily.... on second thought, maybe you take up as much space in my mind as a thought about a toilet would.... although I know you prefer an outhouse.... Indoor plumbing isn't 'manly' enough for a tough guy such as yourself... putting that rope in there tho was a good idea... next time you fall in, you don't have to wait until someone else has to use the outhouse before you get any help...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'd poke a dot of repute on 'er and rock the schit out of a Sleeper...on the sly.............. This thread has taken off since you posted this, but had to find these pics on an old post of mine from '09. Shows you your mind is great. My youngest was 15 then. [img:left] [/img] This rascal was cut to 12-in. LOP and Wild West Guns Scout rail for my oldest son c. '99. The T1 was a recent acquisition when these shots were taken in '09. [img:left] [/img] I was happy as Hell w this MOWT group, but never got to show it to a WT and the sight migrated elsewhere. May move her back and dial in M79 dope for 220s with Seafire's recipe... [img:left] [/img] that oughta be a home defense item that will get an intruders attention, regardless of what side the door or wall he might be on...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Shefire,
Bitchin' Whine.
Congratulations?.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 42,746 |
glad ya liked it Shrimpy....
how's the job search goin? or are you back on the welfare tit for the huntin season..../winter...
Congrats are in order for you tho....
166 posts today and counting....
we are so honored to be graced with your wisdom so much.....
and yet all of that time to go out and shoot, kill animals... take pictures..camo rifles with your daughter's nail polish...
YOU ARE SO FRIGGIN AWESUM!!!!!!!!!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I ain't much fun to try and keep pace with.
Reckon I'm plum flattered,that your fascination with me is so fulfilling for you.
"Living" vicariously saves you Whining Turd Polishers a lot of loot. Laughing!
Thank me later...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I ain't much fun to try and keep pace with.
Reckon I'm plum flattered,that your fascination with me is so fulfilling for you.
"Living" vicariously saves you Whining Turd Polishers a lot of loot. Laughing!
Thank me later................... Really.. wow. So Sad.
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New Member
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New Member
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WOW! This thread is alive! Seems like an old friend. Back in mid 2011 I was lurking around looking for load ideas for my newly purchased marlin 336 . . . I was working in Germany and missing my rifles very much. Although this thread back in 2010 deteriorated quickly, Seafire posted some interesting information that made sense to me.
Back home in early 2012 I started my journey shooting 220 grain RN bullets in my (then) 30/30.
My experience - doing my best to be brief:
- A healthy dose of AA2520 with Sierra 220rn got me to just under 2000 fps, shot into about 2-3� at 100y but were making oblong holes in my target. I stopped adding powder when I encountered stiff extraction. May have been able to get a little faster with a different powder but I lost interest and forgot about the 220s for a while.
- In early 2013 I decided to lengthen the action by 1/8� and was able to seat standard 308 cal bullets at the cannelure and have the rounds cycle through the action, still wasn�t able to increase velocity with the 220s. Accuracy seemed to improve, made clean round holes in my targets.
- Having thought about the stiff extraction and what causes it in the 336 � I chose to increase my powder capacity by re-chambering to 308 win and replaced the original bolt with a 35 rem bolt. The rifle still holds 6 in the tube. I load 40 grains of IMR4064 which gets me about 2200 fps. Much over 40 grains and I run into the stiff extraction again (full pressure commercial 308 loads also yield stiff extraction). I haven�t experimented with other powders. Still shoots into about 2� using the skinner sights. I have very little patience for shooting on a bench . . . I�m sure the load is more capable than my shooting.
100 years ago, my great grandfather hunted the same woods I hunt today. He carried an 1895 Winchester chambered in 30-40 Krag. My 336 roughly duplicates the capability his rifle in a shorter and lighter package. I�ll soon carry my rifle elk hunting and I�m confident the 220 RN bullets will get the job done if the opportunity arises.
Thank you all for this thread with its years of information and entertainment!!
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