Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 7mm Mag for Africa PG?

Well POOP! My next trip over I was going to take my New, to me anyway,.. 7 Wby.

Looks like it`s back to the 8x57...

Don't you love it when people say your rifles are no good? All those Boer's that used inadequate 7x57's for all those decades. Some people just don't know?

JW

Addendum

I actually agree with JJ. A .308 bullet will tear a bigger hole as will a .338. But, I certainly would not leave a 7mm rifle at home that I felt confortable with, that was "prepared" with decent bullets.

JW

I hunted in Zim in '03,what JJ said is almost excatly what my PH told me. I hunted everything with my .338,the biggest animal in my area was an Eland,which I did not get to take,however a nice Kudu and Zebra got "wacked" rather well...

Well, I guess I need to be clear... The 160 Nosler Partitions did not result in a great wound for tracking the bigger game... We had a Zebra that followed the herd... and we didn't find him till the next day several miles away, as we lost his blood trail... my comments were based on the PH's experience, as it was my first trip to Africa!! We hunted last May, and I got my ammo back in early 2009, when it was very scarce, and all I could get were the Partitions... He had suggested the Barnes TSX, Swift A Frame or another "Bonded" bullet, but all I could find was the partition at that time... Many experienced people told me it would be fine... The 7mm would probably have been fine if I had the right bullets. My Fiance had a 30.06 with the Barnes TSX, and did fine on a Large Kudu and a Gemsbok... The truth be told, I didn't hit the Zebra as well as I would have liked... Call it a marginal shot in the shoulder/brisket.... But the PH told me that with a different bullet, I would have had a better blood trail and more damaging of a wound.... and that the partition likely opened up "TOO FAST" with the thick hide and muscles!!! Just my experience...

Shot placement is critical. Redundant to say, but my experience with my 338 win mag down loaded to 2900ft/sec did wonderful one shot stops every time with proper shot placement and tsx 185 gr bullets. It required tracking and followup twice when the hits were 6" from perfect. There was a good blood trail to follow so all animals shot were collected. I made 4 of six really good shots, and two that were not. I am not proud of that but the truth is the only thing that teaches me.

Randy

I went hunting with JJ last year and spent some time having the same discussion with him. My only center fire rifle was a 7x57. I contemplated getting a 30-06 but in the end couldn't in my right mind not take my 7x57 on my first trip to Africa. It would be like not putting jelly on the peanut butter.

Jim was correct though. On my blue wildebeest, we were nearly perpendicular to the right shoulder. My 175 gr NP hit perfect in the shoulder and made a mess of the right lung. It passed through the heart putting holes in the right atrium, septum and left ventricle. The left lung looked damaged but still looked like a lung. I couldn't find any evidence the bullet made it out of the left lung. There was no obvious damage to the left rib cage. The skinners found the bullet in the left lung for me. The beast only went about 50 yards into the bush but we never found a drop of blood. Dino, the tracking dog found the animal without any difficultly but I was worried.




The 175 gr NP put two wholes in everything else. I have no doubt that the 7x57 with good bullets will kill PG just fine but may not always make for easy tracking.

Scott

My experience with a 7mm (in my case, 7mm-08 with 140gr. Nosler AccuBonds) mirrors SWJs in regards to hunting plains game in a similar cartridge. It was perfectly adequate for killing all manner of critters, from steenbok to kudu, but it was not well-suited for blood trails.

I hit a blesbok through the heart - complete pass-through both sides of the animal - and had almost no blood trail to speak of. Thankfully, the fact that it was heart shot kept it from going more than 100 yards. However, it did take 45 minutes to find because it disappeared over the crest of a hill in those 100 yards. Also, on my kudu, the quartering-away shot I took did not yield an exit wound. The bullet appeared just under the far-side hide. Again, the point was moot because the animal only went about 70 yards and we never lost sight of him before he went down. Those who prefer an exit wound might balk at this, but the bottom line was a quick, clean kill.

I must clarify tha the lack of blood on the blesbok hunt also had to do with the fact that the entire region was in the midst of a drought. The soil was exceptionally dry and we did find a blood trail after we found the animal. It was just so hot and the soil so parched that whatever blood had fallen was also dried up significantly and in short order. In that regard, a larger claiber/better blood trail might have sped up the tracking.

I loved the 7mm-08's performance as far as killing power vs. recoil. It was excellent in that department and I will certainly bring it next time. That said, I will also bring a .300 Win mag just for comparison's sake regarding blood trails.

I've only been to Africa 3 times, but I took a 7 mm Rem mag on two of those trips, so I can share my limited experience with my 7 mm on those trips.

My first trip was to the Limpopo region of South Africa. The only rifle that I took was my 7 mm RM, shooting 140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. I shot 9 animals varying in size from Bushbuck to Kudu, including Blue Wildebeest and Gemsbok. Most animals were one shot kills, and all but one died within 30-40 yds of where they were shot. The one that didn't was a Waterbuck where the bullet passed completely through the chest, and it took us 5 days to find him. When we did finally find him, he seemed completely healthy, and had licked his wounds clean. Another shot "on the shoulder" finished him.

My second trip was to Zimbabwe and two different properties in South Africa. I took two rifles, a .375 Ultra Mag shooting 300 gr TSX bullets and a 7 mm Rem mag shooting 160 gr Accubonds. I shot 6 animals with the 7 mm varying from Duiker to Black Wildebeest and Red Hartebeest. All shots "on the shoulder" resulted in DRT kills. One of my PH's was amazed by the large wound channels that the Accubonds made.

My third trip was to 6 different properties or concessions in the Northern and Eastern Cape region of South Africa. The only rifle that I took on this hunt was my .375 RUM shooting 270 gr TSX bullets. I can shoot this rifle about as well as any rifle that I have, shooting 3 shot moa groups out to 300 yds. I shot 13 animals with this rifle on this trip. The larger animals like Eland, Kudu, and Gemsbok just had caliber sized holes in them. The smaller animals like two Steenboks and a Jackal were just about blown apart, just like JJhack wrote.

I also shot a Cape Grysbok on this trip, and to prevent excessive damage to the hide, I borrowed a .308 Win and FMJ military bullets from my PH. It put a clean .30 caliber hole through the Grysbok.

If When I go back to Africa, I will probably just take my .300 Wby, unless Buffalo is on the menu.

But I would not hesitate to hunt Plains Game animals with a 7mm Rem mag and premium bullets, like the 160 gr Accubonds, if that was the only rifle that I had.

Buffybr makes a great point about premium bullets and great shot placement trumping most other factors. I used the AccuBonds as well (in a weight that many people would probably consider to be "too light" for Africa) and loved the terminal performance. You put a good bullet in the right place and just about anything is going down hard. In fact, I'm heading back to the Eastern Cape region in the Spring of next year to shoot a DVD to shoot a DVD with Bill Bagwell (sharpsguy from this board): I have every intention of using the exact same bullet and load. Like I said above, however, I do plan on bringing a larger caliber rifle just for the sake of learning about the different effects, especially when it comes to blood trails. Hopefully, I won't need to worry about a trail because all of the game will go down on the spot, but still...

I reckon there must be something to this 7x57 with the 175's going slow!

I've never used one and only have had experience with the faster 7mms; ie: 7mm RM and 7mmSTW. I used the 7mmSTW to take my sable in Zim in '98 with a 150XBT.........way too light a bullet, but the poor bloke who owned the ranch begged me to take the sable as he could see the writing on the wall and his herd was being poached like hell

The only animal I've lost in Africa was on that trip, a blue wildebeest, shot far to back........never found him and virtually no blood trail after 25 yards.

I'd say the real advantage of the faster rounds is the ability to place the bullet more precisely on your desired point of impact, due to flatter trajectory and lower recoil.

A very interesting thread!

I know this is a little off the original question but what aabout a .338 federal. I have not seen it mentioned at all here and am curious if anyone has used it on PG. I intend on going to africa some day and was thinking of taking my 7mm RM but now im not so sure. I have been thinking of getting a .338 federal anyway and wondering if that would be a better choice. Or a .308? Great thread!

It IS a great thread......

A buddy spent a month in Africa last fall...his only rifle was a 7RM loaded with three bullets(he may chime in because he posts here).
He used three types of bullets to kill 26 head of plains game,(including IIRC 6 bull gemsbuk and assorted other animals allegedly "too tough" for the 7RM);the 140 Bitterroot Bonded Core, the 160 Swift Aframe,and the 175 Nosler Partition..he reports all these bullets worked very well from the 7RM;were devastating,the majority one shot kills.He has previously taken over 200 head with a 270 up to eland in size.

I've learned over the years in reading opinions on cartridges to try and distinguish between the "theory" of killing BG animals and the reality of it.

That is an awful feeling, until the animal is recovered.

Randy

The most experienced PH I've hunted with in Africa is Kevin Thomas, who has been either a game ranger, game manager or PH since he got out of high school over 40 years ago, in both Rhodesia/Zimbabwe (where he is from) and South Africa. Kevin has culled animals from springbok to buffalo, in so many thousands he refuses to make an estimate, though he does know that he's taken over 600 buffalo. Of course, he has also seen his clients take a bunch of animals.

He had this to say on the subject of plains game rifles in the book recently published by Charlie Sisk on custom rifles:

"During my career as a Rhodesian government game ranger and later as a PH and wildlife manager, I literally culled thousands of impala and warthog with a combination of two rifles, a .22 Hornet and a .243 Winchester. In South Africa I did the same type of culling but of springbok and mountain reedbuck, over an eight year period, with the same two cartridges. For culling the bigger antelope like eland, kudu, zebra and blue wildebeest, I tried a variety of calibers but the two that worked best were the .308 Winchester and the 7x57mm Mauser. Ultimately I settled on the 7x57mm as my favorite plains game caliber.

"I could also name a bunch of other ex-Rhodesian game rangers who still swear by either the .308 or the 7x57mm. They were both standard department issue calibers for plains game and earned high accolades in one of colonial Africa�s finest game departments. The late Gordon Cormack, who culled antelope extensively on the vast Leibig�s ranches in Rhodesia in the 1960�s, killed thousands of blue wildebeest, zebra, and a host of other stuff, including sable. On a shared safari, I once asked Cormack what cartridge he used for that culling. His reply: 'A 7x57 Mauser.'

"I would say upwards of 75% of hunters who visit African shores are way over-gunned for the task in hand, although let me qualify this by saying that if a hunter is happy with the heavier .300�s, .338, .etc., and can shoot them well, then stay with them. But if not, what then is an ideal plains game caliber for Southern African conditions? Personally, if we are talking close brush and mopane woodland (80% of our ground cover), and the Eastern Cape�s succulent valley bushveld, I would say any one of the following: .30-06, .308 Winchester and the 7x57mm Mauser (my personal choice). All three calibers will comfortably put our antelope from eland to duiker into the salt, and at the same time the hunter will enjoy his shooting experience without being subject to the discomfort of unnecessary recoil. With the huge range of modern bullets, traditional time-honored calibers are adequate for any plains game hunting likely to be experienced in Southern Africa."

Yes, it is. My PH even admitted that he was starting to get nervous when we didn't find any blood in the opening minutes of the track. I never lost an animal on that first trip and I hope I never do.

Nice quote there JB, thanks!

I've thought of taking my pair of Ruger Number One rifles to Africa; the 7mm Rem mag and the .375 H&H. Would make a nice combo, but I'm not sure I'd really need both. Still, they make a nice pair.

Interesting thoughts about the 7mm and the blood trail. Never been something I'd considered before. I shoot something with the 7mm, and it falls over. Still, if tracking is the issue, agree, a bigger hole makes sense.

Regards, Guy

The 7mm Rem. Mag. in combination with something like the 175-gr. North Fork or Woodleigh would be a terrific PG rig, especially if loaded to a moderate velocity (~ 2650 to 2700 FPS at the muzzle). Personally, I'd prefer something a little bigger but I wouldn't feel "under-gunned" with this combo.

Not to go off on too big a tangent here but, you sure don't see the 7x64 Brenneke mentioned much, at least in the U.S. Along with the 7x57, it is still uber-cool at 90+ years old.

Wow!!! BT's must be a lot tougher than when I stopped using them about 15 years ago. And that was on deer in 7mm Mag and 7mm-08. In my experience with around 20 deer killed with them, they fragment more than I care for. Though they can make great one shot kills on thin skinned whitetails. Did you recover or get pics of the bullets? As long as you make correct shot placement they evidently work. I am sure you totally destroyed their lungs. It is not the bullet I would want to take to Africa nor a bullet I would want to break bone with. What kind of damage was done to the waterbuck with the first bullet? Did you hit any part of the lungs or did it go high?

i just returned from a pgame hunt. we took from sprinbok to eland. one of my fellow hunters used a 7mm rmag. one dont encounter 7mm mags that often in s-africa. the 300wm and the 300H&H mag are the most common magnums. 270 and 7x64 and of course the 7x57 are the most common 7mm's.

all the game, this hunter took with the 7 mm mag, was a one shot kill( except for a one).even the eland was a one shot kill. the one that wasn't was a blesbok, and the simple reason was incorrect shot placement. i was impressed with the 7mm rm but have to add that like most local hunters this guy has been hunting since school and still hunts often for extended periods of time. so he knows his rifle well and is never under pressure to force a shot.

what i am trying to say is that a 7mm rm in an experienced(read with a 7mm mag)hunter will do all the pgame and more. if you shoot it well then that is what you should bring, dont worry.

imo i must agree with jj, i would have preferred you bring a 30 calibre. but this is just my preference it is not a vote of no confidence in the 7mm mag.rather bring your trusted 7mm than a new 338 you hardly know.

Like I wrote, that was my first African hunt, and hopefully I know more now than I did then. It was in 2000, and although I had 35 years of Western big game hunting, that was my first guided hunt and my first hunt with a 7 mm Rem mag. Anyway, instead of aiming "on the shoulder," I aimed "behind the shoulder" like I had done on dozens of deer, elk, moose, etc in Colorado and Montana. It was also the first time I ever used Ballistic Tip bullets, for anything. I now aim "on the shoulder" on African game.

I also only hunt with "premium" bullets in three of my rifles, regardless of the game: 160 gr Accubonds in my 7 mm RM, 168 and 180 gr TSX bullets in my .300 Wby, and 270 and 300 gr TSX bullets in my .375 RUM. Not that I think North American deer size animals need a premium bullet, but that I worked up accurate loads with those bullets in those rifles and see no reason to switch bullets just to save a few cents per bullet.

I have never made a big deal about recovering bullets from the animals that I've shot. If I found the bullet while I was skinning or butchering the animal, I would keep it. If not, oh well. I have a small box with 26 bullets (I just counted them) that I've recovered from over 150 big game animals that I've shot. Most of the time, the bullets go completely through the animals.

Of the 34 African animals that I've shot, I've only recovered 3 bullets. All are .375 TSX bullets. One from my Buffalo, and 2 from a Cape Kudu. The Buffalo was the first animal that I had shot with a TSX bullet, and I asked the skinners if they could find it. The only reason we found the first bullet in the Kudu was we saw a bulge under the skin when they hung the bull up and hosed it off. It had gone in the front of the left shoulder and stopped on the side of the right ham. One of the skinners later brought me the other bullet. All three bullets were the advertized Barnes mushrooms.

As to the Waterbuck, my first shot was a complete pass through about center of the body, in line with the point of the shoulder. The exit hole was about 1 1/2" in diameter, and after 5 days, he had licked it clean. It did not hit a rib. My second, and killing bullet went through one shoulder and into his lungs. I did not recover any of the BT bullets on that hunt.