Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers '94 AE 356

AMEN.

I am not confusing PSI Vs CUP. I quoted the SAAMI pressure specifications for the 307 and 308 Winchester cartridges in CUP because 307 Winchester pressure limitations were not established in PSI. The Winchester Big Bore rifle is strong enough to handle the 307 Winchester cartridge loaded to its working pressure of 52,000 CUP for the long term. Certainly my particular example has given excellent service for 20+ years using full power loads.
The model 94 is not capable of withstanding the pressure of the 454 but this does not make it a poor rifle. The action of the Model 94 is longer than necessary for the short pistol cartridges and there is no point in trying to make the long action feed these short cartridges.
Even at short range the 454 is not superior to the 307 or 356 cartridges for any hunting use.

I am well aware of the 94 Big Bore and it's added strength being the receiver was redesigned for the higher pressure load but what i am getting at is Marlin did not do anything to strengthen it's receiver. They just used there old stand by 336 and barreled it up for the two new cartridges along with the.375 Winchester. It gave them the same problems that they are now having with there newest entry into redesigning the wheel as the pulverable saying goes. Seems they did not learn to much from the first go around. Now they are trying it again in there so called .308 Marlin & the newer .338 Marlin made by Hornady ammo. My point is simple, they the manufacturer's should stop trying to make a lever gun into a bolt gun unless you build it that way like browning did with there proven BLR Model. The locking system/bolt on a 336 is just not strong enough to endure the repeated hammering from the higher pressure loads. That's why when they produced the .307 & .356 they were not loaded to there fullest potential being the case make take the higher pressure but the rifle would soon develop problems exception noted, the Big bore 94 with the beefed up action. like i said way back when, if you want .308 ballistics then buy one and the same goes for the .356 Win. vs the original .358 Winchester. You can put a high performance engine in a Volkswagen but in the end run you still are driving a VW. I rest my case.

As you say, Marlin did not release the 336 ER to the public chambered for the 307 Winchester cartridge. The Marlin 336 action will not handle the same pressure as the Winchester Model 94 Big Bore with the margin of safety required by those responsible for the safety of the buying public. This does not take anything away from the Marlin rifle, it is just a fact.
There is nothing wrong with the 308 Marlin Express cartridge or its rifle that I can see. My 308MX rifle delivers a bit better performance than my 30-30AI and it delivers this performance at lower pressure. I agree the 308 Marlin Express is not a 307 Winchester, but the Winchester rifle is gone and the 307 Winchester is obsolete. The 308 Marlin Express and its rifles are in production now. If you want this level of performance in a tubular magazine lever action rifle the 308ME is the way to go.
I agree the factory loads for the 307 and 356 Winchester cartridges were reduced in performance by Winchester a few years after they introduced the cartridges. Apparently partly due to the way non-canister powder is ordered by the factories. Certainly my Winchester Big Bore rifles chambered for the 307 and 356 Winchester cartridges, after more than 25 years of load testing and shooting exhibit no signs of distress.
Your rifle and caliber recommendation suggests a �one size fits all� plan which was voiced in the gun press around 1900 in the pages of Outing, Outers, Field and Stream, Fur Fish and Game and several other magazines. The big bore Vs small bore, smokeless powder Vs black powder and lead Vs jacketed bullets were hot topics.
There is no need to disparage a fine cartridge or rifle simply because we don�t like it or another manufacturer chambered the cartridge in his rifle which turned out to be: �not up to the task.�

Incidentally, if you have not examined the new Marlin 308MX rifle and its 308 Marlin Express cartridge closely you are missing a very interesting combination. Marlin has fitted the locking bolt to the sliding bolt very carefully and has taken pains to attach the magazine tube to the barrel in such a way as to not bind the barrel. The fore end has nylon rub strips to ensure the barrel and magazine tube does not interfere with the barrel as it heats. You will be hard pressed to handload ammunition with the accuracy potential of the Hornady factory loaded 308 Marlin Express ammunition. I believe this calls for celebration rather than a suggestion we have pushed technology too far.

To really muddy the waters and add to the contention. The Hornady .308FTX ammo shoots sub-moa from my .307Win.

I do have a Marlin 336ER in 356Winchester in France together with one 94. I load for both the same, using Speer 13teen manual loading datas with VN133 and 135 powders or french spherical SP9/7 powders, flat point 180 and 220grs bullets without pressure problems or stress signs. It's powerful enought for all big game i hunt from 0 to 200meters if bullet is placed where it must be. Will try to get 35 caliber Lever Evolution already ordered to french distributor) and stay with 200grs, think will shoot a little bit flatter and velocity will be right between 180 and 220 bullets one.
If i need more speed and flatter shooting cartridge i pick a bolt rifle like my 338Fed Tikka and it's enough.

Had a love affair with the 356 win for many years, just moved on to the 338fed, kimber 84M. Found the 250PP wouldn't open up on deer, did fine on moose/bear. The hawk 250 was actually .359 instead of .358 and expanded so much in almost never exited resulting in no blood trail, had to drop my load 15 grains to be able to extract the case. The 220 speer and 250 kodiak performed perfectly, never able to recover one, but always had huge exit wound, both very accurate. Found the 200gr PP to not be as accurate and since hunt in area's that have brown bear want more buttlet, did shoot a few deer with it and performed very well. Still have a 356 trapper I had built for a bear defense rifle when hiking.