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OK, got a rifle that has been stringing shots horizontal - no defined pattern like L-R or R-L as it heats up, etc. Looking back through my notes, I have tried about 20 or so loads (3 bullets - 180 AB, 180 Part, 168 TTSX, same powder - Re17). On everyone of them, the horizontal dispersion is 2-4X the amount of vertical dispersion.
I dug out the old bedding and rebedded with Marinetex this week - my best bedding job yet. The barrel is not perfectly centered due the the barrel channel not being perfect, but it has a minimum clearance the thickness of 2 business cards all the way around up to the bedding at the chamber area of the barrel. Shot it again this morning - NO difference from previous groups (at 100yds, vertical spread of 0.3-0.7", horizontal spread of 1.2-1.7").
The rifle is a Win M70 Extreme Weather in 300WSM with Talley Ltwt extra lows and a VX3 3.5-10.
I am starting to wonder if it is the scope or the mounts. Guess I'll change these next and then reshoot some of the same loads. I honestly did not torques the Talleys when I installed them. The scope was brand new when mounted.
It is not wind, as I have shot several of the groups early in the morning with no wind.
I have shot other rifles, including my ltwt 7mm Rem Mag, at the same range sessions with great results, so it is not me or my form.
Any other thoughts???
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"Give a lazy man the toughest job, and he will find the easiest way to do it"
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The AB's and the Partitions were seated 0.005-0.010" off the lands, and the TTSX's were 0.050-0.055" off.
Also, all ammo were checked for concentricity - less than 0.002" on all rounds.
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Have you tried other settings or just put them there and adjusted the powder charge? IME, most .30 cal bullets like to be .020-.030 off for the standard bullets. The Barnes typically like .050 or more.
Just as an example, I tried some 220gr Sierra HPBT match bullets .010 off and they shot terrible, with .200 jump I got a .269 three shot group. Try some different seating depths and see what you come up with.
"Give a lazy man the toughest job, and he will find the easiest way to do it"
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so...try something besides RL17, maybe your gun does not like RL17, H4350 is a pretty universal powder. But first I would try another scope. The talley's are so simple hard to believe the problem would be there.
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Well, I'm gonna replace the scope with another today and retry a couple of the loads. Guess I could just turn the scope 90 degress to the left and see if groups start stringing vertically instead of horizontally.
I agree on the Talleys. Hard to imagine anything there that would couse this unless they are somehow binding the scope???
As for the loads, I agree about tweaking distance to lands, trying different powders, etc., but ALL of the groups have had small vertical spreads. And all of the velocities look good, minimal ES, etc. I would think if it was simply load problems, I wouldn't see the pattern I'm seeing.
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What base(s) are you using? A friend of mine had a rifle doing the same thing. It had a one piece base with windage adjustment screws on the back. He swore up and down everything on the scope mounting was tight - ring and base screws. I asked him about the windage screws and he got that "oh crap" look; turned out one side had backed out enough that his scope could move side to side between shots...
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OK, got a rifle that has been stringing shots horizontal - no defined pattern like L-R or R-L as it heats up, etc. Looking back through my notes, I have tried about 20 or so loads (3 bullets - 180 AB, 180 Part, 168 TTSX, same powder - Re17). On everyone of them, the horizontal dispersion is 2-4X the amount of vertical dispersion.
I dug out the old bedding and rebedded with Marinetex this week - my best bedding job yet. The barrel is not perfectly centered due the the barrel channel not being perfect, but it has a minimum clearance the thickness of 2 business cards all the way around up to the bedding at the chamber area of the barrel. Shot it again this morning - NO difference from previous groups (at 100yds, vertical spread of 0.3-0.7", horizontal spread of 1.2-1.7").
The rifle is a Win M70 Extreme Weather in 300WSM with Talley Ltwt extra lows and a VX3 3.5-10.
I am starting to wonder if it is the scope or the mounts. Guess I'll change these next and then reshoot some of the same loads. I honestly did not torques the Talleys when I installed them. The scope was brand new when mounted.
It is not wind, as I have shot several of the groups early in the morning with no wind.
I have shot other rifles, including my ltwt 7mm Rem Mag, at the same range sessions with great results, so it is not me or my form.
Any other thoughts??? When your barrel gets to hot to keep your hand on it stop shooting and let it cool. I have a few rifles that do better with the first 3 shots and then start wondering with hot barrel. I don't know if you have a noodle barrel but sounds like it./ It really gets frustrating sometimes with the results from different loads and results at the range. Not all, or few can group tightly 5 shots but do fine with 3. I have a heavy barrel that can shoot 10 with good groups but noodle barrels-forget it-will not happen.
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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Talley Ltwt's are one piece - no base. I have exactly ONE set of windage adjustable bases . . . on a .22LR.
Barrel is allowed to cool after EVERY shot to the point that is only luke warm. It took me an over an hour and a half Saturday morning to fire off 12 rds.
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last time I saw a bad stringing like that turned out to be a bad scope internals.
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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What is your bench set up? How is your bench technique?
Aim for the exit hole.
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last time I saw a bad stringing like that turned out to be a bad scope internals. That's what I'm thinking . . . Plan to change the scopes out today re-shoot a couple of the same loads tomorrow. What is your bench set up? How is your bench technique? Have shot several other rifle at the same range sessions with drastically different results off of the same rests. I have tried shooting off of a front/rear rest, off sandbags, and off my backpack - same results. Very confident that it's not me . . . this time  !
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Double check the length of the base mounting screws. Especially the front one. It could be bottoming out in the hole & not torquing down completely, even if it seems tight. Karnis caught one of mine that did it & it cured the horizontal stringing problem on a Rem. 700 I was chasing for quite a while..
"The Bigger the Government, the Smaller the Citizen" - Dennis Prager LINK
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oulu,
I checked my last NIB Talley Lwts, and they send 4 of the same length screws. Are you grinding one down?
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Calvin: It would involve the front screw. Remove the front base and screws and peer down into the front threaded hole. If the screw is too long you will see the barrel threads have been "mashed" down. If that is the case, grind or file off about .010 to .015 and reassemble. This very thing has happened to me enough times that I now routinely check and grind the front screw if needed. I can guarantee I pulled out many a handful of hairs trying to sort out a couple of rifles. Even had one rebarreled which didn't help until the front screw was shortened. Live and learn. 
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oulu,
I checked my last NIB Talley Lwts, and they send 4 of the same length screws. Are you grinding one down? Yep. Only if needed. As Karnis says, above. He caught my problem after I was about to throw the GD thing! I don't know if it's simply a screw that's too long, or if maybe Talley is counter sinking the holes in the bases too deep, sometimes. Combination, maybe.. The killer is, when you tighten down only the front screw, it feels pretty tight, but it really isn't, if the screw bottoms out & only snugs. It will drive you bonkers until it gets sorted out.
"The Bigger the Government, the Smaller the Citizen" - Dennis Prager LINK
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ok, I pulled the scope off and checked this - doesn't appear to be touching the barrel screws, but I think I'll go ahead and grind off a little anyway just in case - doesn't take much to make a bullet move a couple of inches at 200yds.
Nice tip Karnis & oulufinn! I've got my fingers crossed . . .
Last edited by TXRam; 07/05/10.
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