Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics how much power do you really need 3-9 4-12 etc

Just curious, but who makes a 4.5-30x scope? [/quote]

Bushnell Elite 6500 4.5-30x50

Ringman,
I don't have a problem with what you're doing. Checking the rack on a deer with your scope after locating it by eye or with binoculars is not the same as "glassing" an area with your scope. I have seen problems caused by too much power. A friend put a 4.5 x 14 on his elk rifle. He had it turned up to 14 power and when he came across an elk, he couldn't find it in his scope. He never got a shot off.

If you're comfortable with your scope, that's fine. I've decided, for myself (even with eyesight that isn't what it once was) if a 2.5x8 or 3x9 isn't adequate for a shot at deer or elk, I need to get closer. I have found that I can see things through a lower power in a top quality scope that are not clear even at higher power in a lesser scope.

doubletap,



Try to get your friend to do all his practice on 14X. Then if he forgets to turn it down, it's no big deal. He's used to it.

But I think he has a problem you illuded to. You see when I bring my scope up on 16X the cross hair is normally on the target. Your friend needs to get his scope set up for the way he brings it up rather than his present setup. He has to move it around to get it centered on his target. There in lies the reason he didn't get the shot at the elk.

Great picture - lets use it to look at Ringmans argument.

22 Mio. hunters - PA to Georgia, Alaska to FL, across the fences in Texas - pick up your rifles and scope these animals, hot chamber and all, Farmhouses in the background.

If you can't find a farmhouse, at least in the eastern states there should be a hunter found. He will do. Moon him all you want.

Ignorance out of bounds.

Scopes are for aiming.

To not violate Rules 3 and 4 ( never let your muzzle cover anything you do not want to destroy / be sure of your target and what lays beyond) identification has to be done beforehand - with a bino / Spotter.

That is the reason binos have no barrel attached.

Any hunter out w/o binos is negligient - either taking chances in identifiing or potentionally violtaing rules 3/4 by mooning with the scope.

Rationalize all you want - Unless you can tell me, how one can use the scope to look at and unidentified target w/o violating rules 3/4, above is the last word on the subject.

To the OP - get how much power you like. People understanding the above seldom need much mag.

For "AIMING" at a deer 2,5 or 3x goes a ways. 4x is ample, 6x ...

For identification, we have the 10x binos.

Jeez, I do not think, I would participate in a public land hunt in Ringman coutry for all the whiskey in Ireland.

And this from a guy who regularly sets up drive hunts for wild boar for up to 50 guns with 25 beaters and dogs in areas of 250 acre.

cmg,


Mostly. Sorta. But really they are to generate money for the manufacturer. That's why there are so many brands and types.

Who is this holy rule maker that we should pay homage to?

Huh? My binocs have two barrels.

Or new or doesn't have extra money or....

Pay homage to this rule maker all you want. There will be a ton of .com friends who will agree with you all day long till they get to the hunting fields.

Perhaps your eyes are better than most of the hunters I have met. I hope so. The best hunter I know can see cariboo and deer over a mile away. He can judge antlers without glass at 3/4 of a mile and judge with 7X binos at two miles.

Maybe you have 10X and maybe some of our .com friends do. I have 6 1/2X Vortex and 13X Minox. The 6 1/2X attach to a chest strap and the 13X attach to a tri-pod and stays in the truck when I leave the area.

It appears you have enough folks to hunt with already.

Now to address something not mentioned:
When you carry your rifle case or pistol case do you keep it pointed in a save direction all the time or do you assume it is bullet proof?

Ringman,

I do trust you know the 4 rules of gun safety.

1) ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED. HhANDLE AS SUCH.
2) KEEP YOUR FINGER OF THE TRIGGER TILL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON TARGET.
3) NEVER LET YOUR MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY.
4) BE SURE OF YOURE TARGET AND WHAT LIES BEYOND.

Col. Jeff Cooper formulated these common sense rules. Hunter Safety 101

Your attitude towards this issue is blatantly clear and your ignorance testament your failure to recognize these rules.

As for carry:

Of course the rifle/pistol is uncocked and empty in the case.

Please do not mock gun safety.

When I was a youngster, with sharp eyes and a flat wallet, I used an old 4x Weaver. Then I switched to a 1.5 - 4.5 Weaver, then I switched to an ancient Zeiss 6x, then to some Japanese (this was in the early 60s.) 3-9 wonder-scope that went all to heck in less than 100 roujnds. Then I went to a Zeiss that kept me eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for several months while I saved up to pay for it. Over the years I have spent more money on scopes than on rifles, The Tasco that goes up to 40X is OK but I wanted more power so I hired a guy who builds telescopes for the University of Pennsylvania, SO far he has made me three "scopes" the last one went up to 200 X. Now I don't actually attach a rifle to these things or go hunting. I have decided that I an an astronomer and that the old Weaver 1.5 - 4.5 was plenty of scope when I really hunted!

Terry

Terry

I am in Ringman's camp, and I don't think that Ringman is a novice at this stuff. CMG, your rules apply to novice hunters, and you have a very special circumstances on drive hunts. Rifles and drive hunts make me very nervous, I prefer a shotgun with buckshot...too easy for someone to get shot. I never would allow drive hunts on my deer leases due to the fact that too many button bucks get shot.

For the guy that walks around with is scope set on 14x, he is a novice with that equipment. Walking around with a variable scope set on the upper power settings is what novices do. I am sure that your friend has learned better. The proper use of the 4-14 scope for walking purposes is to turn it down to it's lowest or close to lowest power, the higher power is for taking long shots, usually at grazing animals.

The whole idea that if a 2-8 or a 3-9 is not enough scope, you need to get closer may apply to close in shooting but not hunting in the open plains of the West or hunting Power lines or gas lines in the South...you CAN NOT get closer!

Not all scopes will apply to all hunting situations, you have to match your equipment to your particular hunting situation, not to mention your likes and dislikes.

If all your shots are under 125 yards, especally in thicker cover, then low powered scopes are the ticket or a variable on it's lowest setting. If you are in Kansas sitting on the edge of a CRP field seeing deer move from 300-700 yards, you need power on your scope. These deer fight, broken racks are normal. Also, a doe or yearling fawn may be on the off side of the buck. I killed two bucks in one shot with a 270 with Factory Remington 150g Core Locts...lucky it was legal to take 2 per day.

Everytime a topic on scope power comes up, it always boils down to people that know how to use a variable scope and people that do not. There used to be an argument that variables were not reliable, not anymore. Another argument is that an expensive low power scope will allow you to see better than a cheaper higher power scope. For those of you that firmly believe this, can you see 7mm or 30 cal bullet holes in the target at 400 yards, I can on my bushnell 4200 4-16 in the 40mm and 50mm(most consider this a cheap scope). I have had top of the line bushnell and Baush and Lomb scopes since 1990, not one has ever been back to the shop.

One thing that should be a rule with novice shooters and variable scopes:

low power is for hunting-walking around
high power is for target shooting-turn your power up from low
to high on grazing animals.

Yesterday, I worked up a load for my brother in law's BAR in 7 Mag with the new Bushnell 2.5-16x42mm. This scope is fantastic to say the least. I expect that you will see many more companies coming out with this spread in magnification.

Terrain, folage, and distances that hunters use their optics in vary so much, it is hard to say that one type of power or scope will do it all. This is just a hobby, part of the fun is doing it the way you like adjusting to your hunting circumstances.

I hunt deer, elk, coyotes, and varmints...my likes/dislikes apply to the way I hunt and in the terrain that I hunt...yours may be different.

I have noticed over the years that folks that shoot with 1.5-5's, 2-7's,2-8's, and fixed powers of 6x and down, seem to limit their shooting to 200 yards, and most never shoot past 100 yards. I suspect that for their type of hunting, 200 yards is an extremely long shot. This does not make them less of a hunter or shooter, it just says that their hunting circumstances is for close in shooting.

The following is an example of the type of shooting that Ringman and I do.

I was deer hunting in Kansas. There was an old house place out in a CRP field where the farmer had his wind mill and water trough for his cows. This old house place probably covered 5 acres, long strip, scattered saplings through out the 5 acres, no clear spots. I had spotted this monster white tail the first day of the hunt, figured he went 180 in score or a little better. I set my ladder stand up 300 yards from the old house place, with nothing but a field between me and the old house place. We considered sitting up in the little patch of trees, but the does would bust us for sure...lots of deer coming in there to bed down. 5 days into the hunt, I spot the large buck coming to the old house place out at 700 yards or so. He comes down a draw and finally I see him behind the old house place with nothing but scattered saplings between the two of us. I waited and waited, he was simply not going to come out to drink until it got dark. He fought other bucks, and I never could get a shot through the trees. Finally, in the last 30 minutes of light, I have the chance to shoot through the trees with a clear line of sight no larger than a dinner plate. 154g Hornady SST out of my 7 Mag through both shoulders, he never even kicked. Leica range finder said 357 yards. I had a Bushnell 4200 in 4-16x 40mm. If I had even been using my Leupold 4-14, the shot would have been marginal. We scored the rack at 185.

In my younger years, I used 4x, 1.5-5's,2-7's, 6x, and 2-8's, they are not for me. I shot on the skeet leage for many years. Perhaps that training has lead me to be able to develop the hand and eye coordination to use the higher powered scopes...who knows...it's just a hobby...the only right or wrong is what is right or wrong for you!

Do you really mean that?

Ringman,



This merits special attention.

If you mean to imply, that I lack experience in the hunting field, better check your records.

My posts are quite open towards my real world persona of Wildlife scientist, researcher/teacher for hunting practise, outfitter/guide in Germany and guide in Alaska.

I challenge you to find someone else more qualified to opine on this subject. Good Luck.

Sorry, if this sounds immodest. Remember, it is not bragging, if you can do it.

cmg,



Didn't you forget one of the rules? Treat all firearms as though they are loaded.



Please do not have a holier than thou attitude. It doesn't look good. Reminds me of too many "Christians".

Keith,



Please tell me you are not serious.

As to the drive hunts.

It is a scientific proven fact that on a properly conducted drive the identification of game is as accurately possible as from stand hunting.

It is a scientific proven fact that on properly conducted drives the accident ratio is no higher than in other forms of hunting. Even lower than in what we call "informal drives".

From your post I know, that you have no experience how a drive is properly conducted.

Your line about the 4 rules and young hunters displays at best a misunderstanding on your part, albeit a serious one.

At last, hunting is a hobby to you. Be that as it may, it is my livelyhood - in any shape and form.

With all your typing and displaying the form of hunting you do, you have yet to state how you forego covering an not identified target with your muzzle while looking through your scope, identifying.

I am not hung up on the magnifications, please understand. Use all the mags you want - just use binos for identification, not the scope.

Ringman,

quit dancing around like a cat on a hot roof.

Admit that you have not thought about certain dangers deriving from described practises and all is well and good.

I am through here.

Two posters display an attitude negating basic gun and hunter safety and got called.

cmg,



I will admit that you, like most holier than thou, assume a lot. You don't have a clue about my gun handling and hunting safety.



I beleive that about as much as I believe your "scietific" facts in your previous post.



Please. Don't think more highly of yourself than you should. I have been called lots of names by my .com friends on several threads and have not been convinced that I am wrong. Just as you are not convinced that you are full of yourself. You and I are just the same.

CMG, my comments about a "novice" was directed at a person that walks around with the Magnification on a 4-14 set on 14x, which is what a novice does.

The 4 rules are great ones, no doubt.

Ringman, you should tell these guys how to flatten their rifle's trajectory. Then they will REALLY be impressed by your knowledge.

Stick to the Bible

Bigbuck215,

I tried. But guys like you and Stealy muddied the water so to speak and the message got lost.

Maybe I should post about testing weighed cases against random weight cases. Or maybe I should give a heads up about squared case heads compared to factory heads. But then some of our .com friends, who have not taken time to test things at the range, would come on a call me names.

Ya know I might just do it anyway. Thanks for the idea.

Stealhead,

I received a P.M. from Rick about that. He politely told me to stop. But he never said anything about responding to other folks' threads. So if you start a thread, then I will respond to it. How's that sound?

Let's hear about the squared case head thing. You might be breaking new ground.