Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only What happened to the .416 Taylor?

Several years before the .416 Taylor came out I wildcatted the .300 Winchester Magnum case to .416, with the idea of duplicating .416 Rigby performance in a much smaller case. I chose the .300 WM over the .338 WM case because of slightly greater capacity. I had no trouble matching .416 Rigby performance, and, opened up to .416, the .300 WM lost its objectionable short neck.

The rifle was built on a P-14 Remington Enfield action, stocked by Hal Hartley, but never made it to Africa. At the time, the only available bullets were Barnes, made using copper tubing jackets, and I just didn't trust them to perform. (John Buhmiller used to say that Barnes solids made good soft points.)

I once tried out a 600 grain Barnes SP on a wildebeest, using my wildcat .505. The wildebeest went down at the shot, got to his feet and staggered about two steps and collapsed. We never found the bullet. It had shattered on the shoulder bone, leaving only fragments.

I've been thinking about this topic for a while. I think the same guys that like cartridges like the 257 Roberts, 8x57, 35 Whelen and 9.3x74 like the 416T. Not the biggest, not the fastest, and certainly not the flashiest. Just great classic calibers that have been great in the field but not the great box office successes. They are just a little less than something else. Kind of the girl with soft brown hair beside the flashy blonde. And yes, my Taylor is sitting with rifles in those calibers in the safe, and they all go hunting.
Bfly

I built my first .416 Taylor twenty years ago. I had available two standard length Mauser actions and wanted some kind of big bore. Settled on the Taylor. I Took it to Africa for my first trip in 1995. It has been to Africa eight times since and I have shot everything from Cape Buff to duiker with it. I Love this gun and currently have two of them. It's probably more sentimental that practical with me at this point, but the cartridge does the job on dangerous game and shoots flat enough to be used on plainsgame animals as well.
God Bless the .416 Taylor

Not anything wrong with the taylor, but why would anyone opt for one when the new 416 Ruger is available? and in factory persuasion and has the proper headstamp marking to get it in and out of any foriegn country..

Also the Ruger balistics are better..I see the new Ruger cartridge as the total dimise of the 416 Taylor except for the diehards who have already dropped a bundle into their Taylor,or just don't want to change and thats fine, but even then I would think a simple rechamber job would work and not cost a bundle..The Ruger round based on the shortened .404 Jefferys should clean up a Taylor chamber handily..That is what I would do..Just my personal oppinion.

The potential problems for the Ruger have not YET been completely cared for, from my view, though it would be my number one choice if I wanted a .416.

Problem 1: limited brass compared to the Taylor.
Problem 2: excessive muzzle blast from the short (20") barrel.
Problem 3: three in the magazine compared to Taylor's four.
Problem 4: with a difference of only 50 fps in favor of the Ruger, that's not enough in my view to choose it over the Taylor.

The main advantage the Ruger has is it's a production rifle.
at reasonable cost. But NO factory ammo (or brass) available in our area. Such being the case (and Hornady has a problem keeping up with demand for ALL new products) I'd not go out and buy one right away... I'd wait and see.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

CZ550,
I have built a few 416 Rugers and I personally had no problem getting brass, dies or bullets. I was not bothered by muzzle blast as its no different than any 20 inch 40 caliber. My 416 Rem. has a 20 inch tube and it has not been a problem. As to 3 or 4 in the magazine and in both case one up the tube, I have never felt that was a problem and its been overplayed for years because in the field and I have shot a lot of buffalo and so fourth with a 3 down rifle, one round is not a death nel to a hunter anymore that 4 might or might not be IMO. As to power, your right on 50 FPS is zilch, and for that matter any caliber over 40 with a velocity of 2200 FPS is suitable for any dangerous game IMO..

Just another perspective but I would not let anyh of your concerms stop me form owning one of the new Rugers. I really like them, but since I have about 3000 rounds or loaded 416 Rem I will stay that that one.

I hear ya Ray,

It was our area (Ontario) I was referring to about lack of supplies from Hornady. One of the largest (perhaps THE largest)dealer complains of getting about 1/3 of their order from Hornady, and that seems to be a common complaint in these parts.

About muzzle blast... that's another matter of course. I'm deaf in my right ear because of it, and refuse to shoot Big Bores with short tubes that eat a lot of powder at psi in the 60,000's!

I believe the Ruger may be the best of the .416's... that's what I've written, at least, but I'd prefer it in a 23". I'm glad you're able to make 'em. Me? I'd have to buy 'em, but really, I'm a .458" guy.

You're about my age, so I guess we should be thankful to be able to shoot anything! And hit where we aim!

Best to ya...

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

My perspective on the Taylor:

The market for dangerous game rifles over .375 bore is pretty small, most American arms makers look at rifles they can sell in large quanitities, so that makes introducing a big bore rifle a gamble.

For better or for worse, the 416 Rigby set the gold standard, which is 400 gr @ 2400 fps. While the Taylor is a great round, it is simply incapable of achieving those balisitics. If rifle manufacturers are going to produce a 416 caliber dangerous game rifle, it had to produce balistics that were at least equal to the 416 Rigby. Yes, a 400 gr @ 2200-2300 fps will kill any and all African game, but as a purely marketing issue, it wasn't powerful enough.

Look at the 416's that the factories finally broght to market, the 416 rem, 416 wetherby, and the American made 416 rigby rifles and ammo.

Shooters are fickle, and gun companies have to make money. The 416 Taylor was simply a business decision that didn't pencil out.

Not to stir the pot, but both Hagel and Wootters got 2400+ fps from their respective .416 Taylors: a 24" and a 23".

John Wootters used his in Africa on lion, buff and elephant. His loads were a 400gr soft and a solid at 2400+ fps, that from a 23" tube, all according to BIG BORE Rifles and Cartridges, Wolfe Publications.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

For those interested, Craig Boddington's article on taking the 416 Taylor to Africa:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/the-416-taylor-revisited

No way to get that velocity and keep pressures under 65 kpsi, especially for hunting in tropical conditions.

So what should/would the velocity/pressure be with say 75 gr of RL15 and a 400 Woodleigh SPRN? Should be close to 2350/2400 from a 23" tube??

Well to stir the pot a bit: Guess I don't get why anyone would bother with any 375 except the H&H or any 416 except the Rigby.
All the others are either wildcats or "one maker" guns/ammo and will end up in the same pot with the SSMs and SAUMs. Between the short action myth (re hunting rifles) and the powder you can't buy, The 300 Win Mag still rules the 30 caliber roost and the 375 H&H and 416 Rigby the big bores.
Disclaimer: we own 300 Supers both belted and flanged (aka the 300 H&H belted and rimmed)(same ballistics as a 300WSM) a 244 H&H (just a silly screamer) and a 400 H&H (400 gr Woodleigh @ 2400, 5000 ft lbs). Were we constrained to two big bores: 375 H&H and 416 Rigby Ruger RSMs.

244 H&H
300 Super Flanged
300 Super Belted (2)
375 H&H (1 now, soon to be 2)
400 H&H















Oddballs are fun but when you get to the back of beyond and the airline lost your ammo, chances are the 375 H&H and 416 Rigby will be more available than the new fad cartridges.

The .416 Rem is a wildcat or one maker cartridge? Let's see...I know Remington and Winchester have made them and I believe that CZ, Sako and Dakota do as well.

God how I wish frammy would suck start one of those rifles.

More importantly "where is John Galt?"

I stand corrected but stories in African Hunter say it is far too pressure sensitive to heat, thus the 416 Rigby still rules.
BTW the 400 H&H was built on the same idea as the 416 Rigby, plenty of performance at low pressures not designing a cartridge around a standard length action as Remington did.

BS on the 416 pressure stories- the 458 had problems in the early years, but modern powders have seemed to negate this issue. The 458 and 416 Rem Mag are in constant field use by professional hunters. My ph carried a 416 Rem in 115 degree heat in Zimbabwe and had no concerns with heat or pressure. Of course, your vast experience with these cartridges exceeds that of working professional hunters.

Thanks for the PM frammy.I'm well aware that I'm on ignore,you've told me 3 times now...