Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Howa 1500/Vanguard SA vs. an L579

Someone made a comparison reference of the former to the Sako but not in detail.

How similar are they i.e. recoil lug, etc. other than the lack of bolt guide and integral scope mount?

Thanks.

Your question is ponderous........

Simply curious if the action is a copy of the old pre-garcia action, as both have integral recoil lugs and large extractors. I don't have both side by side to compare.

No doubt if you want to copy someones product, you can't do it like for like w/o risking litigation.

6.5,

The two actions are very close in design.

There are some small design differences but that is it.

One real difference is the way they are made.

The Howas are built from drop forgings- both the bolt (which is one peice) and the reciever.

I believe the Sakos have been built from investment castings since the late 1960s.

what are the pros/cons of drop forging vs investment casting?

Thanks Jim, did not know they were investment cast, had a pre-garcia Forester that the serial number I believe when checked looked to be in the '64-66 era, looked forged but perhaps not.

Certainly have to appreciate a drop forged process in today's era of skimping to save a nickel in mfg. To my knowledge today's Sako's I am sure are no longer forged, though I do admire their overall build quality and accuracy.

Given the choice, I'd always pick a forged, though admit that I have had some fine shooting Rugers....

I have several refference books with photos of Sako's in house investment casting process going back to the 1960s.

You cannot tell many investment cast parts by visual inspection. If the parts are fully machined, virtually no signs of the casting process are left. For example, if you examine a Freedom Arms revolver, you would never guess the parts were made from the same casting process as a Ruger Blackhawk. It's all in the parts milling/finishing and final tolerances held.

One thing is for sure- in terms of actual quality- the Howas are the full equivalent of any two lug production bolt hunting rifle action in the world today. They are very well made actions.

Great to know Jim, thanks much sir. No doubt, I have a high regard for Howa/Wby Vanguards.

I own a custom rifle made on a Sako 579, and I bought a a Howa and took it apart to look it over in the interest of making it into a custom rifle.

The Sako is much crisper in its machining, and has less extra metal on it. For its size the Sako is much lighter. The Sako trigger is fully adjustable, and Howa triggers aren't. I dont think that there is a thing on the old Sako that isn't machined. Its bolt guide mechanism is much smoother than the Howa's grooved lug bolt's right lug.

I wouldn't trade one Sako for three Howa's. Not that the Howa isn't a deal for the money. They are a pistol to pull the barrel out of. Really tightly wound.

Compareing the workmanship of a Sako 579 to a Howa is like comparing a 1925 commercial Luger to a 1945 vintage Walther P-38 in workmanship!

Hahaha...could you find a more obscure and impossible comparison?

As someopne who has owned BOTH comericial Luger and a late war p-38(as well as early Sakos and a few Howas), that comprison is little over the top...

Especially comparing a Howa of ANY vintage to a late war P-38 Walther. I am not aware of any currently made commercial centerfire bolt rifles that are as crudely made as late war Nazi products.

Good posts guys, I appreciate them. FWIW, I HAVE owned both 579/AII/75 Sakos and Howa's, all were well made, sure they are not apples to apples as even the later Sako's lack perhaps old world hand finishing so it seemed as the 579, yet the all shot great. No doubt the 579 is a very smooth action.

I think the Howa's metric threads are troublesome for some to work w/on, yet there are techniques smith's use to turn the bbls off w/o ill effects.

Thanks again.

Nothing against Sako, but I have 3 Howa's and and a wood .300WBY Vanguard. I would not even consider a trade of 3 for 1 Sako. I buy for go, not for show. I just shoot them, but do not work on them.

I have a SS/SYN Howa 7mmWSM, not even pretty, that I picked up NIB for $330. It would take a wood Sako Mannlicher for me to even consider an even trade. Color me stupid. Life is good.

Never had a 7WSM, but I would be game for that price. No doubt, you can't knock success.

Not current commercial, but the late war Arisakas were pretty darn crude.

I have the 6.5 and the 7.7 in sporterized Arisakas. They are not a pretty rifle.

I once read that in tests after WWII, the Arisakas stood more pressure than all of the other bolt rifles, including Springfields, Enfields, and Mausers.

The trigger is better on a Sako especially compared to the older Vanguards. My new (2009) Vanguard trigger seems to be much better than the older ones, I'm not even considering having it replaced.

But comparing the bottom lines a New Vanguard with Timney trigger will still come in less than a Sako.

Apparently Howa contacted Sako to obtain a license to use some of the design features on their new rifle. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was the dovetail rails on the top of the receiver.

However, when the rifle was produced, it was a virtual copy of the Finnbear. In fact, it was even marketed as the "Dickson Golden Bear"

Apparently the "Golden Bear" was a "clone" and was that close a copy, their three lug bolt would fit and function in a Finnbear!

At that point, Sako played the lawyer card and production of the Golden Bear was stopped after a relatively short run.

Howa then did a redesign and came up with the present 1500 action. Essentially they kept the bottom of the action including the integeral recoil lug the same, but on top, they removed the Sako dovetail rails and contoured it the same as the Rem 700.

There were other changes too, including the bolt design and trigger, but a 1500 is apparently pretty much a drop-in fit with regards a Finnbear stock...

Now there's some historical perspective there, learn something every day, thanks much Pete.