Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Do Exposed Lead Tips of Bullets Melt During Flight?

Have been told that bullets (with exposed lead tips) will melt from the heat / high-speed friction while going through the air.

Is this true? If so, then the uneven or jagged exposed lead tips don't matter too much because they will melt during flight.

If they are bent they can introduce a wobble that will stay with the bullet all the way to the end of it's flight whether it stays on the bullet or not. If it get's hot enough to melt lead it will certainly get hot enough to melt plastic tips as well wouldn't it. Great question.

Simple answer is ...NO.
If you find the formulia (there is one BTW) you'll find that the tip temp does not increase as a result of friction. The PD shooters often find the plastic tips, while examining the carnage, all reports are that there undamaged on recovery.

I recovered 3 tips inside deer last year from 180 gr Ballistic Tips fired from a 300 WM at 3100 fps. The tips were all intact and just under the offside hide.

Sierra told me that lead meplats will not melt so I guess it's so but I remain a little suspicious.

Cores will melt however. The Sierra 50 gr Blitz (222R bullet) will melt out of a .219 I. Zipper at 3600 fps. A sprial of lead can be seen around every bullet hole in the target. They don't group well either.

Don
Where does the magic energy come from to melt the core?
art

When the firing pin connects to the primer bone it connects to the powder bone. That in turn pushes on the bullet bone that rubs on the barrel bone.

Do you remember the tune now? Harry Mills and his brothers did my favorite rendition.

Turn up your sound


Ezekiel cried, "Dem dry bones!"
Ezekiel cried, "Dem dry bones!"
Ezekiel cried, "Dem dry bones!"
"Oh, hear the word of the Lord."

The foot bone connected to the leg bone,
The leg bone connected to the knee bone,
The knee bone connected to the thigh bone,
The thigh bone connected to the back bone,
The back bone connected to the neck bone,

I don't think so............ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

They melted out of my rifle. The Blitz bullet was made for the 222 R and they left a comet tail on the target at close range from the Zipper.

I was looking for some reference to melting and I came across this post by Mule Deer:
"Wayne really mangled them, as I recall--nothing like the simple flattening we normally see.

I have shot buckets full of rounds that either had flat tips, or that I "fixed" with a file, and could see no significant difference in accuracy.

The lead-melting theory was caused by some old photos that had been taken by some lab. A lot of gun writers mentioned thgem over the years.

Eventually, however, somebody tried the experiment again with modern photo equipment and found that the lead tips weren't being melted off after all, it just looked that way in the old, fuzzy black and white photos.

If the lead tip really bothers you, can just file it off flat with the front of the jacket. This doesn't make any difference at all out to 300 yards, and not much after that. Or you can use Speer Mag-Tips or Grand Slams, which already have the job done."

MD

Later

I know about the Sierra Blitz.........I have put more than a few downrange out of a 222......and, out of a 223......and, out of a 22-250.........

I have also shot 33 grain V-Max "surplus" bullets out of my 22-250.......I can assure you, the 33 grain V-Max jacket is MUCH thinner than the Blitz jacket......those 33 grain bullets do 4330 fps out of my 22-250! When they hit a gallon milk jug full of water, they don't exit.......and the fragments that are left in the water don't show ANY properties of melted lead.

Ask yourself one question......if the core is melted......why isn't the lead tip melted too??? After all, the tip IS part of the core!

HUH ???

Must be some new law of physics......(I'm confused <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />)

Tony

The lead meplats on the Blitz's must be melted as how else could a comets tail be painted around each bullet hole?

It's from the thin jacket, my tight bore and the velocity. My bullets were purchased in 1970 so maybe the Blitz has been changed.

Here is a thread where Hornady is quoted as saying that lead meplats do melt from air pressure at over 2600 fps!

air pressure

I don't know what you are seeing when you talk about "comet trails"......I do know that bullets have been known to break up in mid air because the rotational forces placed on the bullet overcome the ability of the jacket to hold things together and cause the bullet to spin apart or "explode" before it reaches the target! That's how I got started shooting the 33 grain V-Max in the 22-250........I wanted to see if I could make it explode before it reached the target........couldn't do it!

I can tell you one thing for certain......when that little 33 grain V-Max....... launched at 4330 fps from my 22-250.......slams into a gallon milk jug full of water at 100 yards and comes apart......the plastic point is usually found laying in the bottom of the jug with the rest of the bullet fragments ......and.....guess what.....it is NOT melted! Since it takes a lot less heat to melt that little plastic tip than it does to melt lead.....well, you figure it out............


By the way.......a 33 grain v-max.....started out at 4330 fps......will absolutely ruin a coyotes day! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gon Hunting, I am curious about the 33 grain vmax load in your 22-250. Can you share the info of your setup. I am thinking of working on the same type of load for mine. Like the sound of ruining a coyote's day.Thanks Ron

The lead smear looks like particles of lead were spraying out of the bullet around each bullet hole.

Ruining a coyotes day is a very good thing. Can you see those bullets hit?

Here is the ballistic coefficient of the 35 gr .224 VMax (224" 35 gr. 0.109). What with that unusually poor Ci for the 35 gr I don't see a special advantage for it out of a big .224 like the 22-250?

I have never seen lead spots around the bullet holes on any of my targets. I have seen grey/black residue around the holes. Even with vmax and other poly tipped bullets. I think what I see is gunpowder residue or borebuildup from previous shots. I think it might have alot to do with powder type. In my .45acp especially the cheaper the round you use the dirtier it burns and the more residue on target/hands after shooting.

Don
How much energy do you suppose it takes to raise the bullet's temp to the melting point of lead? Where do you suppose that energy would have to come from? Do the math and calculate just how much velocity would be left...

Then calculate how much heat is lost to the air. Now add in the latent heat of fusion to the equation and there is no way enough energy could be given to a flying bullet to melt lead and reach the target.
art

Art,

As you say it must calculate out or it can't happen for heat reasons anyway and thats what were both thinking of.

I happen to still have the circa 1970 50 gr Blitz bullets and the same rifle. I may try it someday but not this week.

From Mike375


"posted Aug 16, 5:51 AM
Pecos,

Back in the late 60s we use to use 219 Zipper Improveds a lot in Austrlai with 50 grain Hornady SX bullets.

Frequently at the range, you would see waht bI would describe as like a silver sheen appear in the air about halfway or 2/3rds down to the 100 target.

It was always thought that air friction was literally sanding off microscopic biths of lead and because there was no lead oxide on those bits, they shone in the sun."

Ron

From my load notes:

Win brass
33 grain V-Max (home molied)
39.0 gn Varget
Win Large Rifle Mag primer
2.24 OAL
4330 average velocity (24" barrel)
3 shot average .72"


Keep in mind, these are NOT the 35 grain V-Max bullets that Hornady sells.......these are 33 grain "surplus" bullets. I believe they were made by Hornady for Remington to use in their 22 mag loads (green plastic tip). They do measure .224" diameter......the ballistic coefficient isn't very good as they are short with a rounded nose.....so they aren't really a long range bullet. I bought them because they were dirt cheap and I planned to use them in a couple of single shot pistols and for plinking in my 222 and 223. I tried them in the 22-250 just to see if they would blow up in mid air........they stay together and are amazingly accurate for what they are.....so.... I just HAD to whack a coyote with one! Even though they will kill a coyote "dead right there" with a broadshot to the ribs, I don't really recommend the practice because they aren't constructed heavily enough to penetrate the shoulder!

99

Is it possible that the bullet is breaking up on contact with your target backer, causing the "comet tail"???

I have never really tried to see the 33 grain bullet hit........I have never shot them at long range.

You are correct about the poor BC of the 35 grain V-Max......the 33 is worse because it is shorter and more rounded on the front. As my response to Ron says.......I didn't buy these bullets for the 22-250........just tried them to see if they would blow up in mid air. I generally use the 50 grain V-Max in the 22-250...... in my experience, it is a more reliable killer of coyote sized animals. Besides......I think the 33 at 4330 fps is a bit hard on the throat! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />