Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns hand loading the 40 S&W

I just finished loading 200 rounds of 40 S&W. I've been loading rifle and shotgun ammo for many years but this is my first attempt at loading ammo for handguns. The load I put together is 4.3 grains of Tite Group, a 180 gr. cast TC bullet, Winchester primers. These were Speer cases but I have several thousand cases of different brands that I picked up after the last pistol match. I am wanting a good, inexpensive practice load. These cost me 7cents each. I have a couple of questions;
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<br>I am using RCBS dies and a single stage press. Since the casses are belled before bullet seating is it necessary to chamfer the cases? I did not trim the cases as this batch measured under the max length.
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<br>I wonder how much case prep you pistol shooters do? I would like to keep the loading simple. I do not want to spend as much time preping my pistol cases as I do the cases for my prairie dog rifles. There is no way that I can keep from loosing these cases. My pistol throws them way to heck and gone. Those that hit the ground get mixed up with the tons of other cases already there.
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<br>How do the rest of you pistoleros prepare your cases?

Prarie dog shooter,
<br>I load high volume about the same as you,and do NOT chamfer.I find it isn't needed with a good case mouth expander,and often leads to shaving when cast bullets are loaded on a progressive press.
<br>I do However taper crimp ALL ammo loaded for use in a Semi-auto handgun as a seperate process.
<br>This is especially important on the .40S&W.
<br>The bullet smacking into the feed ramp may cause the bullet to "Set back" into the case like you seated it to a too short OAL.This has major implications on pressure from what is known so far.
<br>The other issue is that the .40S&W operates at a pressure level that is rather high,and when combined with a unsupported chamber(Integral feed ramp barrel) and work hardened brass,may result in a case head blow out.
<br>Keep an eye on how many times you cycle the brass,keep your loads sane,and use a firm but non-distorting taper crimp to avoid any setback.
<br>I also like the Taper crimp cuz it seems to help feed reliability over both the "Roll crimp" and the "Factory crimp".
<br>Currently I am badgering the good Dr.Howell to find exactly how much pressure can be created by "Set back" in the .40S&W as there have been numerous KB's in both Civillian and Law enforcement weapons chambered for the .40S&W.General wisdom points to setback and an unsupported chamber jacking up pressures in a already maxed out cartridge....
<br>It needs validation or the real issue needs to be addressed.
<br>A co-worker of mine recently had his S&W Sigma "Rapidly disassemble" due to +P+ handloads in used brass.It took the poor guy a couple weeks to settle down afterwards,and sapped the fun right out of his shooting for quite a while.
<br>Be careful,sneak up on the charge weights,Taper crimp,and if you have any doubts toss it in the "OOPS!" pile.
<br>Take care!
<br>E4E

PDS,
<br>I personally would not load the 40 S&W. Too many problems relating with the brass being too thin and KA- Booms. I have heard too many horror stories about it to take the chance. What E4E said about the guys Sigma blowing up is true. He was one of my students taking a personal protection class when it happened. Completely destroyed the pistol. I told him not to use reloads in his pistol but he did'nt listen. Well he will listen now. I wish you luck if you attempt to do it.
<br>Keeb

Hi PD Shooter. I load for the 40's big brother, the 10 mm.
<br> I know you want to do volume loading, but I, personally, wouldn't feel too safe loading a hot pistol round like that while cutting too many corners.
<br> For volume, nothing beat using tungsten carbide sizing dies. No case lubing. Even cleans them some.
<br> I segregate my brass as to make, and finnish, i.e. nickel, or brass.
<br> I trim them all to minimum lenth. Makes for consistant, accurate loads.
<br> For target loads, I load near the bottom of the listed loads with a fast powder. This helps the gun function, saves on powder costs, and reduces recoil.
<br> The .40 goes critical fast. I would not exceed any maximums set by the bullet, or powder companys. In fact, I would stay at least a couple of tenths of a grain under the listed maximum.
<br>I've never had to tirm any auto pistol cases more than once.
<br> Have fun. E
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E4E- Is your taper crimp operation part of your bullet seating die. My 3 die set (RCBS) has a tungsen carbide size die, a case expander die and a bullet seating die that taper crimps the case. Is this the type of set up you use or do you have a seprate die that crimps the case after your bullet seating operation?
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<br>Explain what an unsupported chamber is. I was told the Glock had an unsupported chamber and should not be feed reloads. I bought a Beretta 96. Does it have an unsupported chamber?
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<br>Looking at the pistol, I see that the gass from a ruptured case or primer would go right back into my face. I will not be loading anywhere near maxium loads, rest assured.
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<br>The reason I have not reloaded for pistols before is because I saw some good revolvers blown to peices by reloaders who got careless and double charged a case. What is it that makes you think that's not what happened in the cases of the 40 S&W's that were blown up? Did some of these guns blow up with factory loads?
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<br>I don't know much about loading for pistols. Thanks for answering my questions.
<br>PDS

Pdog...
<br>I'm gonna run to the country store and pick up some fuzzy water(Gottta stay up all day and NOT sleep,so I can stay awake tomorrow for training/Requal)Be right back,and will try to explain some of this stuff,and point you towards folks that can help with the stuff I can't.
<br>Gimme 20Min.
<br>E4E

Pdog,
<br>Your Berretta may in fact have a supported chamber.
<br>Remove the barrel from the slide,and insert a case into the chamber.Is the casehead completely enclosed in the chamber or is it partially seen exposed in the feed ramp area?If it is seen,it is unsupported.
<br>The Glocks have gotten a bad rap for the KB thing.
<br>Glock had more than 60% of the Law Enforcement market as of a while ago,and most of L.E. is using the 40S&W.This leads to a statistically higher number of chances for that setback/Kaboom to happen in a Glock.
<br>They all will do it given the right conditions.
<br>As for the Dies.I seat and partially crimp using a conventional seater die,but just enough crimp to hold the bullet in place.Then the next station applies the taper crimp.Carbide Dies are the only way to fly,and RCBS makes good stuff.I am not sure about the Seater/Taper crimp though...Last I knew it was a seater/modified roll crimp.Roll crimping just creates accuracy and reliability problems from cases not getting a uniform crimp unless you trim each one to EXACTLY the same length.Inconsistent roll crimps cause ignition variables,pressure differences,and at times bullet distortion.Bad JuJu all around in a Semi auto.
<br>Powderwise,(Let the flames begin!)I prefer med. burning powders in the neighborhood of Blue Dot,AA#7,Power pistol,etc. and heavier bullets.
<br>My reasoning is that the faster burning powders peak so fast there is little volume of bore gained by bullet movement,and it resembles more of a Spike than a curve on a pressure graph.
<br>Going back to the brass containing the pressure.spreading the time of the pressure applied to the case head,rather than clobbering it all at once allows the brass to stretch.
<br>The middle rate powders also fill the case more,and provide for less position sensitivity.
<br>That's with the Jacketed bullets though.
<br>With cast Bullets you will want to be on the faster side of the burn chart to initiate bullet base obturation as soon as possible to avoid gas cutting and lead fouling.
<br>You must tinker a bit with each cast bullet alloy to find where ya wanna be."Hard"cast bullets isn't always better.Sometimes they can be a smidge too hard and lead as bad or worse than too soft.
<br>Running the 40 at below standard pressures is a good idea for practice ammo.Especially with brass of unknown previous use.When I loaded commercially,I would only load once fired L.E. range brass,and NOT accept turn in for reload on it once sold.Getting fired in a sloppy chamber,resized to spec and then fired in another sloppy chamber again work hardens things a bit,and my insurance company just wouldn't understand.
<br>I have buds that have loaded and fired 40 brass 5-6 times,but they admit to getting a bit nervous now and then.
<br>The KB issue is also happening with factory ammo.
<br>Colts,Glocks,Sigs,H&K's,Berettas..all of em.
<br>General thought is that it's setback at the root.
<br>I can't buy the setback issue alone as the culprit.
<br>I think there is some issue with a combination of things,including some weak brass.
<br>When the case head lets loose,the pressure will follow the path of least resistence.Usually this means the mag well.Generally the mag catch is overcome,as are the grips,and the mag gets blown free.Small flying particles of molten brass and pistol parts fly.
<br>Wear your shooting glasses!
<br>Don't let this put you off though.Just be prudent in your loading practices,respect the limits of case life,forget the high end velocity loads.
<br>Check your loads over a Chronograph and check for velocity spikes.
<br>I will do some checking on the chamber of your Berretta.
<br>It is of the Model 92 Family,correct?
<br>Cast bullets will save you some pressure from the same load using Jacketed.If the loads that shoot accurately don't quite cycle the pistol reliably,get ahold of Wolff springs and get a lighter action spring.Us 1911 weenies have been doing it for years.
<br>Just for the record,here's a bit of info to ponder.
<br>180gr Hornady XTP.4.2gr Titegroup=
<br>870fps @26,500psi.
<br>Jack that powder charge up to:
<br>4.7gr Titegroup=
<br>970fps @33,300psi!!!!!!
<br>7,200psi!?! from .5 gr?!
<br>Same seating depth etc.
<br>The 40S&W is a peaky,highly intense cartridge,and it's pressures are within 3,000psi of the .44Mag that uses fully supported cases....
<br>For contrast.
<br>.45acp 185gr.XTP 5.5gr Titegroup=
<br>950fps @17,000psi or just over half the pressure to do the same work.
<br>Thank god the designers of the 40 knew that the case head needed beefing,and did so.
<br>Again,Just go easy and sneak up on the charge,mind the number of firings on your brass.Use a good taper crimp to avoid setback.Use the heavier bullets that have more bearing surface for the case to grip.
<br>Use the Chrony to gauge if things are getting wierd with charges that are under max listed.Big SD's means pressure spikes or an inconsistent crimp.Both are bad.
<br>If ya need,holler.I loaded and sold several hundred thousand .40's and never had a KB report from a customer.
<br>FYI.There is currently a production lot of Speer .40Gold Dot ammo that is involved in a couple KB's.
<br>Steer clear untill they publicly announce the Lot#.
<br>If I get the #,I'll pass it on to ya.
<br>Go easy and quit worrying.If in doubt..pull it!
<br>Not much different than a rifle cartridge in many respects.Just now the crimp is more important to safety,and tiny volume differences have become significant.
<br>Good Luck to ya!
<br>E4E
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E4E - Thanks for the help.
<br>I looked at my Beretta 96 as you described. It looks like the case is inside the barrel all the way to the extractor grove in the feed ramp area. The manual that came with my pistol warns aginst the use of +P+ loads. It also states not to use lead bullets that have the case mouth crimped into the bullet. I asume this means a roll crimp? It also says not to shoot jacketed bullets through a barrel that has previously been fired with lead bullets until all of the lead has been cleaned out. What's the best method to remove all of the lead? Shooters Choice, a brush and patches?
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<br>I noticed the PSI information that you pointed out the first time I checked my Hogdon manual. That is a huge pressure increase for so little increase in powder. I also read the warnings on every page of their 40 S&W data. Don't use this data for pistols with unsuported chambers is basically what they say. That's why I am loading near the low end of that data. ( 4.3 grs )
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<br>I chose Tight Group powder because I read that it was not as sensitive to presure changes caused by the powder shifting position in the case.
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<br>I understand that loading this cartridge is not the same game as loading for a .270 or a .222
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<br>I am using Winchester supreme 180 gr SXT factory loads for my personal protection load. Do you have any experience with that load? At $13.79 per box of 20 they are expensive. But I will stay with factory loads for personal protection because of the liability issue.
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<br>When I took my concealed carry class the instructor required factory ammo be used. I asumed it was for safety / liability reasons. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me. I hope you will keep me informed of any new developments. I am going to continue to load practice ammo very carefully keeping a close eye on the cases for any sign of problems. Hopefully I won't run into any problems. I will not be shooting anyone else's reloads thats for sure. Thanks again. PDS

PDS,
<br>No sweat.
<br>For getting lead out of a barrel,the easiest and fastest method I have found is using a lead remover screen setup from either Hoppe's or the Lewis lead remover that the Hoppe's system copies.Then,I'll use broze wool wrapped around a Bronze bore brush and scrub like a mad man to get the little bitty smears that refuse to co-operate...I also have been known to go a bit anal and break out the JB Bore paste and scrub till I'm bored of it,just to polish things up in the bore a bit.
<br>Several scrubbings with the JB will reduce leading a bit.
<br>Pistol barrel "Break in" just like rifle barrels,it's just not as obvious untill it comes time to clean the things.
<br>The owners manual is correct on the roll crimp thing....BAAAAAAD Juju!
<br>It sounds like your Berretta is fully supported.
<br>More peace of mind!
<br>The Win.SXT is what I carry in my MAU-SOC 1911(1936 Colt 1911A1 w/USMC armourer Mods),and they are EXCELLENT!
<br>For a good reference on effectiveness of any defensive round check out www.evanmarshall.com
<br>Evan is good people,and answers most questions asked in one way or another.
<br>Titegroup is an excellent powder I think.
<br>Just to be sure though,use the chronograph to check position sensitivity.
<br>fire 3 shots after pointing the muzzle up and tapping the slide to settle the powder to the rear of the case, before each shot.
<br>Record the avg Vel. and SD.
<br>Then fire 3 shots after pointing the muzzle downward and tapping the slide before each shot.Record avg.Vel and SD. and then compare.
<br>This is also fun to play with using factory ammo.
<br>Bet another guy that you can get the same loads in the same pistol to shoot faster than he can.
<br>Let him shoot first.
<br>Be a good sport and explain it to him over the beer his lost cash purchased:
<br>Have fun with your new pistol!
<br>Take care!
<br>E4E