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#4631159 - 11/25/10 09:07 AM Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme
Brazos_Jack Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 145
Loc: Texas/Saudi Arabia
Im hoping Mule Deer will weigh in on this.

Im planning on switching to the most temperature insensitive propellants I can for most of my rifle cartridge reloading. This has me considering standardizing on several Hodgdon Extreme Powders, Some of the cartridges I will be loading for, like the 9.3x62 and 6.8 SPC, are volumetrically challenged, which make the denser ball powders, like the RamShot line, attractive.

In terms of temperature sensitivity, how do the RamShot powders compare to the Hodgdon Extreme powders?

Hodgdon H4350 vs Ramshot Hunter

Hodgdon Varget vs Ramshot Big Game

Hodgdon H4895 vs Ramshot TAC

Hodgdon H322 vs Ramshot X-Terminator

Brazos_Jack
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#4631269 - 11/25/10 09:44 AM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: Brazos_Jack]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 34062
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
I haven't tested H322 or X-Terminator in cold, so I don't know about them.

The Hodgdon Extremes are overall the most consistent powders in cold temps that I've tested, but in my tests TAC and Big Game did just about as well as the Extremes. Hunter (and Ramshot) didn't do quite as well, but were still very good.

That said, according to a very experienced lab technician, temp-stability can change depending on the cartridge and application. He used the word "stressed" when describing what happens to a supposedly temp-stable powder when the powder is used outside it's normal uses.

He gave the specific example of Varget with 140-grain bullets in the .260 Remington. Varget wouldn't be the "best" Extreme powder to use with 140's. Instead the best choice would probably be H4350. In that application, he said, Varget loses some temp-stability.

I've used quite a bit of Ramshot TAC, Big Game, Hunter and Magnum when hunting here in Montana in cold weather, and all have done very well--as my chronograph tests indicated they should.
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John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#4631339 - 11/25/10 10:12 AM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: Mule Deer]
fish head Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 15637
Loc: Colorado front range
"That said, according to a very experienced lab technician, temp-stability can change depending on the cartridge and application. He used the word "stressed" when describing what happens to a supposedly temp-stable powder when the powder is used outside it's normal uses".


Vhtavuori had posted the same/similar findings in regards to temp-stability on their website. It's very cartridge specific as to just how stable a given powder is. I don't know if it's still on the website or not.

Just trying to add a little something JB.
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#4631364 - 11/25/10 10:20 AM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: fish head]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 34062
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Thanks for the additional info!

When I've run my own cold-tempeature tests, I've tested cartridge/bullet combos that are very well suited to the powders, such as TAC and Benchmark with 50-grain bullets in the .223, or H4350 and Hunter with 100-grain bullets in the .257 Roberts.
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John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#4631520 - 11/25/10 11:12 AM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: Mule Deer]
denton Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 7659
Loc: Utah
The mechanism of MV variation with temperature is that cold steel, lead, and brass rob more energy from the propellant gas than hot steel, lead, and brass do. Different chamber surface areas and cartridge case masses require different compensations for initial temperature. JB is absolutely correct that a powder that compensates very well in one cartridge will likely compensate poorly in another.
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#4632015 - 11/25/10 03:13 PM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: denton]
AaroninMT Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 129
John,

The one variable I question is primers. I noticed that often Ramshot load data shows standard primers over magnum primers.

I started out before hunting season with an Accurate ball powder in my 7-08 and standard primers. In the warmer weather it was a 1/2" combination, but when got cold it opened up. Out of concern I switched to a stick powder.

If I had started with magnum primers, would I have been more likely to maintain groups in different temperatures?

Aaron

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#4632191 - 11/25/10 04:42 PM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: AaroninMT]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 34062
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
It would have been something to try, for sure.

I sometimes find magnum primers make an accuracy difference with Ramshot powders even at "normal" temperatures.
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John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#4633012 - 11/25/10 11:52 PM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: Mule Deer]
Brazos_Jack Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 145
Loc: Texas/Saudi Arabia
Thanks John,

The density of Big Game should definitely make it easier to get enough powder under a 250gr NAB or 286gr NP in a 9.3x62 than with Varget for top velocities.

Xterminator looks like a good way to get enough powder under a 110gr or 115gr for a good whitetail load in 6.8 SPC. I just hope its temperature stable enough to be consistent in all conditions.
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#4633227 - 11/26/10 06:08 AM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: Brazos_Jack]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 34062
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
I haven't found Big Game to have any advantage with 250's in the 9.3x62, but it's definitely a top powder with 286's.
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John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#5312185 - 06/07/11 04:43 PM Re: Question for Mule Deer Temp Sensitivity of Ramshot vs Hodgdon Extreme [Re: Mule Deer]
Genehunter Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 106
In my CZ550FS, a recent experiment with 9.3X62 250 grain NAB and 63.5 grains of Big Game with WLR primers gave good results. Would you recommend I play with magnum primers to optimize for hunting temperatures ~5 - 10 degrees below freezing?

Many thanks!

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