Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles I love my Kimber Mod 89 Super America...

I had posted some pictures over on my thread about building a .257 Bob or 338-06, and a Campfire member who worked for Kimber at the time, recognized the rifle and PM'd me a very nice note and insight into what it was like working for Kimber at that time. I have read many post about Kimbers, the old and the new, and there seems to be quite varying opinions on how good, or bad a rifle they are. I know Dogzapper who seems as honest as the day is long and very credible has a negative opinion about them, so I always wondered why mine seemed like such a nice rifle.

Norman's post is a long one, but worth the read to me. It's interesting and enlightening to read about a time gone by from sombody who was there. I'm going to post my reply first, then Norman's story.

Wow, thank you for that post and most interesting story. I love that rifle! I found that rifle sitting in the used section of Ronan Sports and Western in Ronan Montana around 94 or 95. I couldn't afford it and I already had my old Rem 700 in .270 plus a very nice Tom Burgess Mauser in 7mm Rem Mag,so the caliber was kind of redundant, but the general nice lines of the rifle, the Warne rings and that fine wood on the stock always caught my eye, so I would ask to handle it everytime I drove through Ronan.

That rifle stayed on the used gun rack for over a year when I took a fairly nice old Spanish side by side shotgun in trade for something I forget. I figured the Spanish double was worth about $600.00 and they were asking $775.00 for the Kimber, so I figured what the heck, maybe they'd trade straight across for the shotgun. They did and I took the Kimber home.

I'm not a rifle looney like most on the forum, I pretty much only shoot my rifle hunting and maybe developing a load, but for this first antelope hunt I just bought a box of premium Federal 130s and took it to the range. It shot the Federals at less than an inch and I was off hunting. Now accuracy is one thing, but to me much more important is how a rifle handles. That rifle handles like a fine English game gun! It comes up right to the shoulder with me looking right down the scope, and it swings like a light English 16 ga. I love the Model 70 style safety. The bolt is smooth and the hinged floorplate looks and works well. I've shot a lot of game with that gun and never missed a shot.

Funny story about my hunting partner Neil. We were hunting in far eastern Montana for Antelope. I had tagged out but was riding around with him and our other buddy, I was in the cramped back seat of his pick up. We just came to a gate on the ranch we were hunting when a herd of about twenty lopes flashed by right in front of the truck and down the fence line. There was a nice buck in the group so Neil jumped out. Unfortunately his gun was cased in the back so I handed him my Kimber which had shells in the magazine. By this time the lopes are at full speed about 250 yards away and turning right angle to us in single file down another fence line. Well Neil who had never shot this rifle before, jacks one into the chamber, pulls the rifle up to his shoulder, swings through the buck like a fast crossing shot on Pheasant, pulls the trigger and the buck flips end over end shot through the heart dead.

To this day Neil insist that I put the Kimber in my will to him. That is one gun I will never sell. BTW, the wood is so nice on it, I was wondering if it is a Super America grade, how can I tell?

Thanks again for the great story.

Here's Norman's story...


Beautiful job on the Fajen. And I think the Bob (.257 Dad) will be perfect....

The bottom pictured 270, I thought I recognized it.... I dug back through your posts and read you had identified it before. Indeed it is an 89 BGR! The Kimber of Oregon I remember with fondness from 20 years ago.

Your stock was made in Colton, Oregon, an unincorporated logging and farming town in the Cascade foothills up out of the Willamette Valley. The building had been a saw blade factory back in the 50s. The action, mostly made in Clackamas, the 89s were stamped Kimber of Oregon, Clackamas, OR. Bolt work and the final assembly (for the 89s) was in Colton too. (Dan Cooper was hired direct into final assembly out there and some of us guys thought it was lame to bring someone in from outside... Maybe he'd worked for them before, I don't know.) I was at the bottom of the company not the top. In fact, I started as a day laborer digging a Koi pond in the mid-summer�s heat. I kept going there every day and eventually they put me to work.

Many barrels were then made (rifled) in house, I saw the broaching machine with my own eyes but read elsewhere this wasn't the case, but maybe that was prior to 89ish. It really was a big expansion to Kimber of Oregon when the Army target model 82 contract came along, much more inhouse work. Blueing in Clackamas, nice deep and dark. We made some fine rifles during that time. I am proud to say thousands of those models 82, 84 and 89 stocks passed through my hands, just '88-91ish. Was laidoff and rehired multiple times. Well, it was more like fired and rehired. They called it the Machine Sanding and Hardware Department, just me usually but I was the leadman... Did the pointed metal butt plates too, skeletons etc... I cut the curved butts to length on a band saw, and planed the curved ones, and machined sanded the butts for the 89s flat, glued on the butt pads, heck I machine sanded them too, bulk purchased orange Kimber branded Pachmayr Decelerators on the 89s and black thinner ones which could be heated and curved on the 84 Varmint model which came in walnut or laminate. That laminate stuff was hard and made one finish sander's ears bleed. Not too many production laminates around back then. I was told to use ear plugs in my nose to prevent bleeding, just jokingly of course. Seems we all smoked in there too. Since, I've concluded this was likely due to high formaldehyde content in the resins used by the blank manufacturer, or the cigarettes?

In our woodshop we used Satellite City glue, cryanoacrylate, all three kinds, red, yellow and green for various things. The yellow and green bond so strong almost any wood will break before that stuff will give, when properly prepped. We wondered what a hundred years would do? Eventually we used it instead of epoxy for buttpads... Some 3M epoxy and a dowel would hold the ebony on. The epoxy was premium stuff and worked darn fine for bedding. That ebony is hard, always had to finesse it to keep from over sanding the walnut and ending up with a swollen looking forearm tip. Had a router thing to cut 82 and 84 bolt slots. The 89s as I recall have a contoured bolt slot and were partially machined and then filed and finish sanded. Also, I planed the grips flat on a shaper, well on the 82s and 84s at least, I think the 89s grip was CNC'd flattish then filed. Sealed the end grain (grip plane) with same glue, yellow is good for that, and filed flat and smooth again with a machinist file, whereas the cast grip cap was sanded flat on a machine sander, tough to make it all gap-free in production. I countersunk the grip cap mounting hole too, on a drill press. Then mounted the grip cap (unique matched to each stock, likely has a number engraved? underneath matching a number in barrel channel and maybe my initials on underside of the cap). Used a center punch, drilled the hole and then a 9v Makita to screw 'em on. Freehand always, no jigs. Hopefully I eyeballed it all straight, buttpad or plate and grip cap in line with the inletting, maybe a little cast - the right way is always preferred.... There really was no way to line it all up but to just go for it, eyeballing it... There was no way for the guys doing the rough shape of the blank on a machine called the Zukermann and then inletting on a CNC mill to align everything up enough between their machines to match up correctly in jigs afterwards, or at least that�s the way it was. The big guys we�re always putting a little more material on the metal Zukkerman master blank or taking a little off trying to get it just right, not too much wood - but never too little. Had one of those bend once too and I had to raise heck to get anyone to listen that it wasn�t me making them cast-ON. I thought the boss was gonna have a stoke right then and there � the master is bent! They were a capital investment, I was $7 an hour.

I'd then machine sand the stock down using a combo of two large belt sanders, and balloon (drum) sanders. The final touch, my innovation/trick, (although it was suggested by the tooling guy and rumor had it Ruger did it that way too), but it was a major mod 89 improvement none-the-less; nice and smooth finish without chatter is pretty hard on really soft ones (buttpads) like these were, I think softer than made for retail pads, fairly spongy. Anyways, the trick is using very sharp, new, 600 grit very under-inflated 14" balloon sander sprayed with water so it just kinda flaps along the edge of the drum. Inflated just enough to keep the paper from spinning. Secret is out. If the orange rubber is rough and/or uneven, or lumpy (due to smashing the air out of it when clamping) on yours, then - sorry, rather touchy stuff... So many times we experimented with screwing the pads on but in the production setting, weeks later, it just would not be gap free and perfectly fit after so many hands, removal and re-install, the sprayed on finish coats etc... There are a few out there. Any wax on the grip cap or buttplate screws? That's plumbers bowl wax...

Then it was off to the boys with the files, most were my age, about 20 with a couple old guys around to keep 'em sharp, they must have been pushing 35-40. They really took a lot of pride in their work - as did everyone involved. They'd not have to do too much really, carve out the flutes and some contouring on the nose and behind the grip and tang, but I had them very close, especially the forearms... They'd always show me their straight-edges and I'd just laugh, took me a second to do what they did in minutes... But just couldn�t get it absolutely final. But the shaper's and finish sander's skills really showed in the beaded cheekpiece they crafted. The bead is the trick. The bead is the Super America. The one you posted in your thread, the Fajen you worked on - its a beautiful bead... Then the finish sanders, checkerer ladies, finishers, assemblers etc... They'd cut the slot for the sling swivel mount on the final finished product, more than one was toasted right there just before shipping. A simple stud is much easier in every way.

Anytime I can hold one of those Oregon 89s and inspect closely I can give an estimate to vintage.... Several subtle stock changes were made, some were totally reworked. But the over-all contours, the general shape, those were the things most influenced by machine sanding. IMO the pinnacle of Kimber of Oregon was the 89-91 stuff... No offense to the old crew from Clackamas but we made some fine stocks in Colton, everything got more refined, finer checkering and nicer patterns too if I recall, but more refined shaping, slimmer yet rounder, a fine line with flying 80grit... From 10 feet away I can spot a Colton made stock, sometimes... The 89 BGRs were shot for group and did generally well under .5" 10-shot at 50 yard tunnel. Really was a laborious deal all the shooting those guys did at that time, 2-3 shifts to shoot all the Army 22s, 82s, 84, and 89 BGRs including the Africans. The 89 BGR Africans were damm�d fine production rifles. Saw a hundred shot group once with a '89 BGR 270Win as I recall, 1/2 inch, hot barrel and all... From 22s to 505s we were busting them out in style.

There were some tough times for Kimber too and some exceptions to what quality went out the door. I think they were really struggling because of low margins on the Army 82 22lr target contract and grew too fast and needed to expand and expand to try to keep rolling... Sometimes, we and nobody wanted to, but we had no choice, just had to "ship it", to make payroll. People gotta realize this was not some giant corporation and a 100+ person payroll is bound to make a dent in a guy's pocket book. I did not run in the inner circles, and I don�t care for politics. I did not work with the finished rifles or actions and comment solely on the woodwork, we did well, usually. More than once a homely stock was trashed to keep it from getting out. Got to test buttpad and ebony glue strength against concrete slab; stuff like a contour just off enough that the checkering pattern didn't lay just right. This was production and not custom, we couldn�t change the metal to match the wood and everything needed to be rather consistent but it was all freehand. There is a limited supply of pretty Claro and French walnut, we were using hundreds a month.

I originally started with the fish pond as stated above, then, I was on to the heavy Army target stocks, swing shift at 70 a night worthy of the name club forsure... There are some to be had still unissued, they'll do some sweet shooting, generally. Then was transferred to sporters on day shift, must have been summer �88. My swingshift leadman trained me up on nice Claro 82s and 84s, it was the only wood we had, pointed metal buttplates fitted; I toasted the first ten, seriously, ground them right into uselessness, once it�s gone you can't put it back.... Took the tang out or the point or shoulder of the plate while sanding the top of the butt, upside down of course, the stock, not me. Luckily got the hang of it... Had no idea what the next couple years were to bring.

Some sporters, the 82s, 84s, and 89s will have a set or two or three initials in the barrel channel. Usually the shapers, finish sanders and checkerers would do that, they did a few a day, while I did them all. Eight or ten then upwards of thirty or so per day once we were really rolling. Had some help but that was mainly on the hardware end. Myself, and two of the shapers were the few that could machine sand well enough to make it pay.... I got to where it was mainly by feel and would freak out the bosses by looking at them and not the stock I was grinding... The shape of the grip curve on yours appears early-mid production, mid-late �89-ish... The initial few month's production 89 BGRs were made by one the hotshot long-term guys (no offense intended, but its true), actually brought up from shooting - they were so fat, the stocks that is, OMG! Dealers and customers sent them back to be reworked. We slimmed them down, reshaped, re-checkered and refinished... They'd get a new batch of our refined ones in and put them on the shelf next to the early ones and there was no chance anyone was going to buy one of those clubs. Don't even know what to compare them too, baseball bat? Ever try to machine sand a finished stock slimmer without touching the finished grip cap or butt pad... Some made it and some didn't.

I used two big custom belt sanders, 3-phase maybe even 5hp, a 12"x12' belt on a graphite covered felt table about 14"x24" behind a small 2" wheel, belt flowing away. The other rig was a 4" belt, 12' long set up mainly for using the wheel up front, belt flowing to front - custom made rubberized wheel about 3 1/2" dia, reversibility a must, and a felt and graphite table too... Belt tracking control is critical. The graphite over a felt pad was key to it all, and the juxtaposition of the pad and wheels, and contour of the rubber edge of the wheel, and mostly not to let anyone put gouges in it (the graphite) and always sweep and roll while sanding a flat even contour... Took quite a bit of prototyping to get the perfect table worked out with the tooling guy. Was just plywood before and that wasn't so conducive to shaping. Just setting something on flat will take whatever shape the table is, which is prone to wear from the belt and gouging from pressure. Shapers would always come in to grind on their file edges or make chisels or make file handles, Ergg! We all fab�d or modified our tools. We�d be brown with walnut dust and hands stained black from the wood pigments. The later grips had been extended to a longer more 'round' or 'even' curve by then, that's how I know the vintage, combined with the pad finish, sort of, as that was determined by where I mounted the cap and how I swung the grip around the wheel right to, but not through, the metal cap, kinda a roll and turn and sweep motion to form the basis of the grip. Used balloon sanders of a couple sizes and grits too. Yours is not one of the reworks.

Did a stint with them again as Kimber of America, stock shop too but more time as a handyman setting up for the Swedish Mauser conversion work in '94-95, building bluing tanks, work benches, installing equipment, running airlines and wiring everything. Imagine cargo containers full of 96 Mauser 6.5 Swede's! Whole containers stuffed full! Some were unissued, some had peep sights, some all matching numbers, some were beat to death, but forsure, there were piles and piles of them. As I recall the employee price was like $56.... Hindsight... I had for a while a beut of a Carl GustavStad from 1907 with barely a mark on it. Later was given a bonus, a reject of sorts, reversed roll-stamped Mod 82 Classic that was good for .26� ten-shot groups. Both of those ended up going away at gunshows when cash was more of interest. Dang-it. In �94-95 they were prototyping their 1911s. All before the final 'Kimber of' days, after which stock work went to Costa Rica and metal to Yonkers. I do not consider it the same company in any way, Super America � Central that is, there�s no bead, and the bolt slot is a big fat straight cut, whatever... I really didn't follow the history then - off to college. The company founder Greg Warne is deceased now, may he rest in peace, he used to josh me because I like the Rem 700. But he always had a big smile when he'd see what I'd do with a stock on the machine sanders, it cut hours off the shaper production time... He'd come up with one and say, "Did you did this?" Usually it was a good thing. His father, Jack Warne was a great man to know, he directed me during the handyman phase; he was on the Leupold Board and he started Warne rings. Any true sense of Kimber of Oregon quality and distinction came from Mr. Warne Senior through his son. I have not heard how he is lately but elderly if so... They are Aussies, cousins to the winch and hub folks, purportedly. Hope this was not too hard on your eyes! I am passionate about Warne Mounts, Leupolds, some Rem 700s and those Oregon built Kimbers. Again, just a few years experience as a young man and twenty year's hindsight. If I have errored in facts, I assure you it wasn't regarding the machine sanding. Those were the good ol' days. Anyways - I guess I wanted to share this with you. Hope you don't mind. Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas. OT, Oregon USA

_________________________

Here's a couple pics of John's Kimber of Oregon Model 89 BGR, Big Game Rifle. He asked if he could post the note and was kind enough to allow expansion. OT

Ronan S/W has cost me more than a buck or two myself. Back in the day Dan sold me my Kimber SA of Or in .223. Think it might of been his rifle for a rifle. It's now punched to Ack and still kicking booty.

Dober

I had a Super America in 7x57 once upon a time....fairly rare rifle, 1 of 24 I believe. Never shot it, so I traded it off for a Dakota 76.

That's one I shoulda kept, and hunted.

David Christman is currently rectifying my error with a full custom on a mexican mauser.

I've owned 2 or 3 others as well. A .300 Win mag and a .280 Rem come to mind......

Lovely rifles....

Dober whats the details of the Mex project?

Dober

Dober,

Mexican Mauser (without the cocking piece)
23" Lilja berrel
Timney trigger
Wiebe Bottom metal
Double Square bridge
1/4 Rib, one standing blade
Hooded banded front sight
Burgess bolt handle (Glimm #1)

Classic English stock, quarter sawn
90 degree ebony foreend
Shadowline cheekpiece
Skeleton grip, point checkering

What have I forgotten?

Color case hardening on the cocking piece, skeleton grip, screws nitre blue IIRC (going from memory here).

David has been a true gentleman and a pleasure to work with.

Sounds awesome, cal and contour? I always wanted to do a Roberts on a Mex

Dober

7x57, I sold the Kimber because if I wanted a long action 7mm, I'da built a .280.

Have to refer to my build sheet for contour, and I'm well into the Xmas cheer and refuse to venture upstairs at the moment

The 6.5x55, Roberts and 7x57 all beg for the Mexican length action.

Merry Christmas to you Dober.

And to you 2

Dober

Dang man the shop around the corner from me had one of these not too long ago. I went in and fondled it repeatedly. 25-06. Unbelievable. I mean really stunning. If it had only been $600 rather than $1700 I'd have bought it rather than the 84 Select I'd lusted after in the Bob. It was a consignment so I couldn't lay it away, and even at that price (and it was worth every penny) it went fast. There wasn't so much as a glint of brass on the bolt head... owned by a collector who mustn't have ever shot it, or if so VERY minimally. Argh.

Then again, I've got an SR'98 which, after nearly 3 yrs, is in the final stages...

Great find. I mean seriously... that is once in a lifetime. Very cool, and thanks for sharing!

Yah John scored there, an 89 BGR for $600 value trade is pretty sweet. Just was looking and noticed there were Kimber of Oregons stamped Colton (post '89) as well as those stamped Clackamas. Not sure on the Kimber of America models but I think they were all stamped Clackamas. Be curious to see any pics anyone has of Kimber of Oregon model 89 BGR or Mod 84 varmint models.... Anyone? Especially pics of 89 BGRs in Africa grade or any 84s with laminate or anything with French walnut stocks or skeletonized butt plates. Just the Oregon manufacture stuff. For clarification there were the three brands: Kimber of Oregon till 91, then Kimber of America 94-? and finally just Kimber which is the current Yonkers and Costa Rica stuff... Not the same as a Kimber, Super America which is a model or grade designation and doesn't specify period.
Here's a nicely shaped Frenchy butt, 89 BGR 338 Win from Colton at the peak of perfection.
Note the point where the flute, bead, and cheeckpiece come together and the distinct definition and crisp line of the flute.
The Oregon built Kimbers were the only production rifle to feature the beaded cheakpiece, as I recall. OT

Nice rifles and thanks for sharing!!

I'm thinking that $600 rifle was an 84, not an 89. Don't recall Kimber putting out an 89 in .25-06.

It is certainly a convoluted history and I feel best equipped to comment on the Kimber of Oregon 1988-1991 phase. The old Kimber companies simply did not make medium nor long action 84s. Roughly speaking, to the best of my knowledge, the Model 89 BGR was the giant leap forward, for Kimber of Oregon, into the long action market. That was the large expansion referenced above going from 8-10 to 20-30 sporters a day to build the Model 89 BGRs and an expanded line of heavy barreled 84 varmint models. This was after, and coupled with, massive expansion to make the 50-70? Model 82 Government, which I call the Army 22s, per day.
It was these two major expansions that created the growing pains that Kimber of Oregon ultimately did not survive, going from 8-10 to nearly 100 rifles per day. John's $600 value trade rifle is a Kimber of Oregon Model 89 BGR 270Win Super America grade that retailed for $1400+, and was from the earlier side of production. It should say Kimber Super America on the action and Kimber of Oregon, and either Clackamas (my guess) or Colton, Oregon on the barrel.
I do not know the Model 84 dimensions and thought they had included up to 22-250 but possibly it was limited to 223. The 84M and 8400 designations are definitely post Kimber of Oregon period... I've just tried researching the phase between Kimber of Oregon and the current Kimber which I've called Kimber of America and I do not have a solid grasp on the company designation. Like I said I was at the bottom. I know the phase I call Kimber of America was the 1994-95 restart phase, again in Clackamas and Colton Oregon and included, model 82, and 84, and sporterizing Swedish Mausers, prior to the entire company moving to Yonkers and stock work to Costa Rica. Although the current company website says kimberamerica, I think the post Clackamas and Colton production phase (Yonkers) is appropriately just called Kimber, not Kimber of America. I do not think the model 89 BGR went beyond Kimber of Oregon. Love to see pics of Kimber of Oregon model 89 BGR African, they were French walnut with an oval cheekpiece and 416 Rigby forsure and either a 500 something or 505 Gibbs. Those were some fine stocks. Long-winded as ever. OT

Kimber of Oregon did indeed make 89s in .25/06 as well as .257 Roberts. The M84 action is suitable only for .223-length cartridges although Kimber did make a few Big Bore 84s in .250 Savage....

I've seen an Oregon 89 Super America in the Roberts, never came across a 25-06. Unless is was in one of those hideously ugly laminated stocks they put out on (Swedish??) Mausers?

The 84 I was speaking of in the .25-06 is the new Yonkers 8400.

As Oregontripper rightly pointed out, this is a convoluted history indeed!

Bob, thanks for the info.


ny, Don't specifically recall the 25-06 89s but do remember the run of 7mm Mauser you mentioned previously, I did not understand the appeal at the time. The Kimber of America Swede conversions I saw were limited to RamLine black plastic, that was up till May-ish '95 and not sure what they did later on. The Kimber of Oregon laminates were pretty nice stocks, where-as the Ramlines forever anchored my distaste for plastic. OT

Excellent info John, thanks for posting it.