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#4764322 - 12/31/10 UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT
Soulfly Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 4132
Loc: The Buckeye State
Oh man, for thoes who didnt see it, what a train wreck for both teams. If this keeps up the Tenn coach will look like he;s 100 yrs old by next year.

I had a sick feeling when that thing hit zero because Ive been there. I didnt celebrate this time, Dooley said.


Linky
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#4764327 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: Soulfly]
isaac Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 57306
Loc: Northern Virginia
what a train wreck for both teams.
===================

That's a fact. It was rather patheic to watch,actually. Maybe some good games today can finally get us into next weeks potential.
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#4764366 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: isaac]
JohnMoses Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 18251
Loc: Mississippi
The officiating matched the play. Never seen a penalty enforced after a play was whistled dead in which no flag was thrown. (too many men on the field for NC)

Only to be enforced after a clock review that confirmed time had expired.

By using the previous plays unacknowledged penalty, they were able to give NC another chance since a game cannot end on a penalty of that type, even though no flags were thrown nor was any announcement made by the umpire declaring there was a penalty on the play until after the review for time...

Spoke with Al Graning who is a former SEC official and was on the NCAA Rules committee for a number of years. He said they f-d up big time.

Oh well.

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#4764422 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: Soulfly]
byc Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 25991
Loc: VA 2 SC
I liked it! smile
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#4764495 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: JohnMoses]
Foxbat Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 13957
Loc: Spring Hill, FL
Originally Posted By: JohnMoses
The officiating matched the play. Never seen a penalty enforced after a play was whistled dead in which no flag was thrown. (too many men on the field for NC)

Only to be enforced after a clock review that confirmed time had expired.

By using the previous plays unacknowledged penalty, they were able to give NC another chance since a game cannot end on a penalty of that type, even though no flags were thrown nor was any announcement made by the umpire declaring there was a penalty on the play until after the review for time...

Spoke with Al Graning who is a former SEC official and was on the NCAA Rules committee for a number of years. He said they f-d up big time.

Oh well.



A game can't end on a DEFENSIVE penalty. The call was never that the time was put back on because of the penalty, it was because the replay booth believed 1 second was left when the spike hit the ground.

Rewatch the ending. The referee NEVER says that time is being put back on because of the penalty.

The penalty for "too many men on the field", only effected where the ball was spotted and had ZERO to do with time.

By your argument above, the penalty should not have been called IF it wasn't flagged, but the outcome would have been that UNC would have taken their FG attempt 5 yards closer.

Not to mention your original assertion above that you've never seen a penalty without a flag, after the play was blown dead....
Did you not see the end of the Tenn-LSU game this year? No flag, illegal participation only called after play/game over and the replay official called down to the referee that TN had too many men on the field.
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#4764498 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: Foxbat]
isaac Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 57306
Loc: Northern Virginia
You have some work ahead of you,JM!!
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#4764518 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: isaac]
byc Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 25991
Loc: VA 2 SC
Yup---It was indeed the spike that spiked the whole thing. wink

Really does make you wonder what Butch Davis might have had were it not for all the ineligibles. Also, I like the way TJ Yates plays football. Thinking we may just see him on Sundays.
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"Any FOOL can see what's wrong. But can YOU see what's right?"
....................................Winston Churchill

Proud to be a true Sandlapper!!

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#4764536 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: byc]
Soulfly Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 4132
Loc: The Buckeye State
I am still confused about the guy from K-St getting a flag for saluting and no flag in this game they saluted after every stinking TD and no flags?? Both Big 10 crews too.
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#4764557 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: Soulfly]
ExpatFromOK Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 3551
Loc: Oklahoma, Canadian River
Originally Posted By: 270LightningBLR
I am still confused about the guy from K-St getting a flag for saluting and no flag in this game they saluted after every stinking TD and no flags?? Both Big 10 crews too.


K-State got robbed. That call is an embarassment.

Expat
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#4764558 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: ExpatFromOK]
Soulfly Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 4132
Loc: The Buckeye State
Oh I can agree with that
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#4764564 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: Soulfly]
byc Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 25991
Loc: VA 2 SC
Originally Posted By: 270LightningBLR
I am still confused about the guy from K-St getting a flag for saluting and no flag in this game they saluted after every stinking TD and no flags?? Both Big 10 crews too.


That was total BS! This whole excessive celebration thing needs its own manual. It's just plain silly.
_________________________
"Any FOOL can see what's wrong. But can YOU see what's right?"
....................................Winston Churchill

Proud to be a true Sandlapper!!

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#4764569 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: byc]
Soulfly Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 4132
Loc: The Buckeye State
Originally Posted By: byc
Originally Posted By: 270LightningBLR
I am still confused about the guy from K-St getting a flag for saluting and no flag in this game they saluted after every stinking TD and no flags?? Both Big 10 crews too.


That was total BS! This whole excessive celebration thing needs its own manual. It's just plain silly.


Agreed, it is getting pretty bad
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#4764593 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: Soulfly]
dh1 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 1298
Loc: PA
NC coach believes the game to be a classic that will be watched 100yrs from now on ESPN Classic. Baloney.

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#4764614 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: dh1]
isaac Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 57306
Loc: Northern Virginia
For bloopers,maybe.
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William Arthur Ward





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#4764813 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: isaac]
JohnMoses Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 18251
Loc: Mississippi
Was time not put back on the clock foxbat? It read zero after he spiked the ball....

Time was put back on the clock with no replay showing any was left.

The bogus no call that was enforced on the following play was used to bolster their position that NC still had a play left regardless, so as to mute criticism of the questionable time call, making it irrelevant.

You cannot call or enforce a penalty after the fact by using instant replay.

Tell me how an official can watch the clock and a guy spike the ball and know when it touched the ground and what the clock said.

I never saw a replay showing the official time during that play. Guess we'll have to take their word for it.

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#4765142 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: JohnMoses]
Foxbat Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 13957
Loc: Spring Hill, FL
Bob Davie said repeatedly while the play was being replayed that ESPN's slowmo showed there was 1 second left on the clock when the spike hit the turf.

The Head Referee in his explanation said specifically that 1 second was shown on the replay when the ball was spiked.

The penalty was a separate issue. Because is was "too many men on the field" rather than a pre snap illegal participation for "too many men in the huddle", had the replay showed the clock at zero when the ball was spiked, the penalty could not have had time placed back on the clock, because it was a post snap offensive penalty. Tenn would have been able to decline the penalty and the game would have ended. TN accepted the penalty because the 1 second was placed back on solely because of the snap and it left them with no choice but to back UNC up 5 yards and hope for a miss.

Further proof that the 1 second was put on for the spike and not a pre snap penalty is the very fact that only 1 second was put back on, rather than 5 seconds as would have been the case in a too many men in the huddle pre-snap penalty.

The only way an offensive penalty can halt the last play of the game is if it is a pre snap penalty. All other offensive penalties can be declined by the defense and game is over.

Quote:
You cannot call or enforce a penalty after the fact by using instant replay.


As I said, this exact thing occurred in the LSU-TENN game. The SEC said that is a reviewable call.

Quote:
Tell me how an official can watch the clock and a guy spike the ball and know when it touched the ground and what the clock said.


This is a reviewable call. The replay official has full ability to look at the replay and ascertain if time was left when the ball hit the ground.

This same thing happened in the Nebraska-Texas game last year.
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#4765227 - 12/31/10 Re: UNC wins wild Music City Bowl in 2OT [Re: JohnMoses]
Foxbat Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 13957
Loc: Spring Hill, FL
Quote:

You cannot call or enforce a penalty after the fact by using instant replay.


JM, watch this.....

Game ends around the :50 mark.

No flag...game over... no effort by the refs to claim there was a penalty.

Now... go to the 1:47 mark almost a minute after the game ends and you see the head referee run over to take a call from the replay official, who tells him that Tenn had too many men on the field.

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