This is some pretty sad news! I sued that bullet for years out of a Rem. Custom KS in 300 Win. mag with great results. Sure wish these companies could leave well enough alone!
Perhaps they will pull a Remington. Took a bullet with a great reputation, (core-locked), saved a few pennies by thinning it out. You can still get the original, but now its called the core-locked Ultra! More money of course. Go figure.
[/quote] Hornaday has grown into a pretty large company in the last 20 years. I'm sure they have a lot of young engineers who are constantly asked to tweek and improve products every day..
I SINCERELY doubt Hornady would INTENTIONALLY make a change to a product that they KNOW would lead to it's failure in the field. [/quote]
I wonder if some of those engineers are "20 somethings"?... I also do not recall anyone saying they were intentionally trying to change the product to make it fail, but if they made a design change and it doesn't work in the field Hornady should be made aware of it. A product designed to intentionally fail would not drive customers to a more expensive product from the same manufacturer but would drive customers away altogether. JMHO.
If we lose freedom here there is nowhere to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. Ronald Reagan
Originally Posted by Steelhead
who gives a [bleep] about the stuff that goes wrong
Yup - but it also drives other purchasing decisions. I'm just looking for a bullet to settle on for my new 204... the Sierra blitzking is becoming quite attractive.
I wonder if some of those engineers are "20 somethings"?... I also do not recall anyone saying they were intentionally trying to change the product to make it fail, but if they made a design change and it doesn't work in the field Hornady should be made aware of it. A product designed to intentionally fail would not drive customers to a more expensive product from the same manufacturer but would drive customers away altogether. JMHO.
You need to go back and look on this very thread. Some folks ARE claiming Hornady has purposely lessened the performance of the Interlock..
This quote on the top of page two-
Originally Posted by Con
Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
Is it some type of money saving move? easier to produce? That would be my guess.
... or a redesign to promote the use of their more expensive range of monolithics like the GMX and bonded bullets like the Interbond?
Last edited by jim62; 01/02/11.
To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
I'm certain Hornady has had the intention of pissing everyone off; they did, after all, kept making Jet bullets, 22 Imp bullets and 33 WCF bullets because customers don't matter...
I would think such a change would be tested thoroughly, in expansion media, if it was intentional.
Knowing how things can go in stamping shops, I wonder if it was an error in the process setup, or a tool was repaired incorrectly.
I was thinking the same thing, all the way along .
"Chit happens", in a manufacturing environment .
Hope somebody's got some lot #s to backtrack .
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
Was a time more than a few years back that I shot all my deer for 5-6 years with my push feed M70 300 Win Mag,for awhile I used my elk load 180 NPT's. then worked up a mild load of H4831 and Hornady 165 gr SP and BTSP bullets they were running just under 3100 fps. These Hornadys were Interlock vintage and both shot very well in my 300win mag. They both also shot well in my custom 03 30-06 at about 2800 fps. The flat based SP allways held together and exited. The BTSP's on the otherhand just about allways came apart or darn near did most of the time not exiting on quartering shots. I still like the SP flatbase as a go to bullet that gets the job done. I've found that the 139 gr 7's in the btsp aren't as durable either as the SP flatbase ditto the 100 gr in the 243. I think a btsp just comes apart easier period no matter whose they are or in what. Somebody got some new ones they will section ,I'll section an older Interlock. Magnum Man
I've got a couple of stunts I've muddled my way into for "Sectioning" bullets, and getting a real clean specimen....
Mind if I ask how you do it ?
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
Magnum Man: Yes, I have new lots of 30 cal. 180 fb. and 165 spbt.
I have already USED the 180s this season on 4 deer. Results were VERY GOOD. Two were broadside thru ribs/lungs. One was slightly 1/4ing and broke left side shoulder where it joins the upper leg upon exit. There was VERY LITTLE blood shot and did not do excessive damage.( Seemed very controled exp.)
The other one was almost RAKING. Broke 2 ribs on entrance and seperated the right shoulder upon exit. Again little bloodshot and not excessive meat damage.
It may take me a couple of days to get to it, but I'll try to section both 180 & 165. Both in NEW BOXES, new lots.
J.B. Since my new lot of 180 performed very well, I'm just wondering if they may have changed BACK. You would need to have seen the terminal performance on these 4 deer but we couldn't ask a c/c to do any better. This performance came from a 300 WM, 180 gr at distances of 145yds, @150yds, 135 yds, & 260 yds. So that's 3 at fairly close range and 1 at medium range.
I'll try to section samples of 180s & 165s ASAP.
I would also be GLAD to mail you a couple of each bullet wt. and you could do whatever you wanted with NEW LOTS. Aletheuo posted pics of the older box he got from Mike and Mine are the new box and the LOT NO. matched Aletheuos new no.
JWALL ______________
Son I Don't Know You Well Enough To Miss You.........Johnny Cash
"Actually thought we would cut some bullets in half to see if the interlock was in the same place"
Magnum Man
I guess that's for me ? Iwas curious as to the method YOU use to "Cut them in Half",...that's all,....
I'd be GLAD to do that,....I've got a "Never Sweat" way of getting good (LAB GRADE) results.
Made a BUNCH , once,....for a "Hunter Training" program, then just did it for laughs.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
Was a time more than a few years back that I shot all my deer for 5-6 years with my push feed M70 300 Win Mag,for awhile I used my elk load 180 NPT's. then worked up a mild load of H4831 and Hornady 165 gr SP and BTSP bullets they were running just under 3100 fps. These Hornadys were Interlock vintage and both shot very well in my 300win mag. They both also shot well in my custom 03 30-06 at about 2800 fps. The flat based SP allways held together and exited. The BTSP's on the otherhand just about allways came apart or darn near did most of the time not exiting on quartering shots. I still like the SP flatbase as a go to bullet that gets the job done. I've found that the 139 gr 7's in the btsp aren't as durable either as the SP flatbase ditto the 100 gr in the 243. I think a btsp just comes apart easier period no matter whose they are or in what. Somebody got some new ones they will section ,I'll section an older Interlock. Magnum Man
Wait a minute! You shot game with a push-feed Model 70? And you admit it? Good for you!
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
jim62.........the reason why I haven't bothered with 24hr campfire since the last post......... I never personally clamed that Hornady had intentionally decreased the interlocks performance.........though I oddly don't find the idea beyond plausable. What I know is 6 months ago, I thought that I had 1200 bullets that I could absolutely count on for my 30-06; now I find myself in a situation where I have to buy very expensive bullets, that cost way more than they should possibly be worth, to get the performance I thought that I was always getting........even the most basic of cup and core bullet shouldn't totally fail on a deer.....or even an elk. Mike
During the discussion of Hornady Interlock performance a little while ago here, a Campfire member (who didn't post on the thread because it turned into a typical Campfire name-calling contest) PM'd me and said he'd had a 180-grain .30 caliber separate jacket and core on a 200-yard broadside rib shot on a cow elk. The cartridge was the .300 Winchester Magnum, and the terminal velocity at 200 yards would have been about 2650 fps.
He sent me the jacket, and it's one of the new bullets with the Interlock ring much higher in the shank of the jacket, not far below the cannelure. The jacket opened back past the ring, and the core popped free. In fact, the Interlock ring is now on the outside of the jacket, where the jacket turned inside out.
In the past the Interlock ring was maybe 1/4" above the base of the jacket. I have a few Interlock Spire Points in my recovered bullet collection, and with only one exception they all opened up to the Interlock ring and no further. (The exception was a 130 from a .270 that hit the spine at the base of the neck on a big pronghorn buck, as it faced my wife at 130 yards. We found the mangled jacket and what was left of the core under the skin at the back of the neck, which might be expected on such a close-range shot from a high-velocity cartridge. The buck went straight down.)
He also sent along a couple of bullets pulled from his handloads, so I can do a little "media" penetration testing. But right now it does look as if the changed location of the Interlock ring is indeed affecting terminal performance.
John, I believe your original post on this was correct when you inferred that by moving the interlock forward, expansion to that point, "would/could", negate the integrity of the design and let the core go.
I think this is correct, at least in what I have seen posted on the sectioned bullets. I personally favor the BT version of this bullet so will section one to see if that IL has been moved as well.
JW
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
Good for you!