Home Forums Fishing Flyfishing Aztec revisited..

Yeah, the camera doesn't do nearly enough lying. Every stray fiber shows up like my drunken uncle's nose.
I do what I can, let other chips fall where they may. I've no doubt I could pick out at least one imperfection in every Aztec pic I've ever posted. (Good thing the fish are peering through muddy water.)

Tie on whatever hook you wish.
But since it's the tail of the Aztec that gives it its alluring wiggle, the standard is only a 1XL, not a traditional streamer (3-6XL) hook, with length being achieved through tail.
For freshwater, it's a 7957BX. Unfortunately, the largest size made is #2; so then it's the 3366 (Sproat, doggone it), a standard-length hook, up from there.
A size #1 (one of the sizes you mentioned using) 3366 is about 14/16ths of an inch long to rear of shank, and an Aztec on it would be 4 inches in total length- so three inches of tail waving behind less than one inch of baitfish body silhouette.

(I'm guessing that your salmon hook is maybe 2X? Or perhaps it's just the long slope of the bend that makes me think long.)
If the gape would work for you, I'd go a size or two smaller but leave the overall length the same.

Ok. Thinned this out a bit, and moved my photo background behind the fly. That lets some light come through the pattern, which I was not seeing at all in my shots above. I'll work on keeping those tail strands strained with an upward tug as I move my final thread lashings into and away from that region.



A comment I might add regarding the instructions if a revision is ever drafted. Rather than specific measures, things might go more smoothly if lengths etc were related to ones individual hook. I.e. Tail strands 4 X hook shank or crests 3 X hook gap and trimmed to final dimensions. I see that method applied with Atlantic salmon fly patterns, and it rids one of the need to consult a ruler leaving a tie more in proportion to ones hooks.

Anyway, thanks for the patience, and I'll try to leave you alone for a bit. Enjoyed the exchanges.

Yes, that's clearer.
And probably about right on density.


Suggestions are always welcomed, though not necessarily always incorporated.

Most tying instructions he wrote used proportional measurements, but not the Aztec's.
But every measurement for every size was charted (did I give you a copy of that sheet?). And the hook really doesn't enter much into the equation- think of it as the total length determining backward to a proportional Crest height.
The hook mainly sits underneath, a spectator.

He made it "cookie cutter" style, assembly line style: Before beginning to tie, cut (he had a length of a paper ruler glued along the front edge of his tying surface) and prepare the yarn as per the chart, and lay the pieces out in sequence on the table; tie through the instruction steps; and after the whip finish you'll have a semi-finished product nearly at size- minimum waste to trim away. Repeatable, simple as paint-by-numbers, requiring no judgement to make a standard example.
And all of the materials were ready-to-hand, with no need to do anything to them during the tying.

There's no need to change anything if one goes to a large- or small-gape hook, nor would a switch to a few-X shorter or longer shank require different lengths in the pre-tie yarn. And the overall length would be the same, and determined by the size of baitfish you want to simulate.

The hook was intended to be standard length or only 1X Long, and Perfect bend, for the reasons given earlier; and those reasons are "structural", somewhat integral to the design and use of the fly, so extreme changes in hook were not anticipated (nor encouraged).
The versions meant for display were, I admit, usually tied on salmon hooks,

but that's because they look so elegant.
But not being intended for fishing, the increased potential for fouling that those bends introduce was disregarded, the longer shank simply required an extra Crest Loop or two, and the tail and Crest were trimmed as per a regular one size larger.

So
If you want a 3-inch fly, cut yarn as per the chart for a #4 or #2 hook, and tie them on whatever hook size or style you wish, trimming tail and Crest to chart.

((To me, "4 X shank length" is a clumsy measurement; I'd rather have recourse to a ruler. And when trimming the tied-on Crest, the gape is not available to lay against the yarn; the ruler is. Having done it this way all along, it's natural and easy to me.))




Not requiring patience at all. This is fun.
"I don't wanna be alone, daddy!"
I have, too. Any time.

Macrabbit:

OK. Getting closer yet. I made a concerted effort to keep the tail stands slanted upward as they received their final and rearmost lashings. There was a temptation to put a single yarn body wrap beneath/behind the tail, but a brief test showed that would put too much of an upward cant to things. Looks like your photo above might have used that technique.

I think, I'll retain this one as my model, and start doing some color variations. Still cold up here with -5 at the house when I took this image this morning. I tried this shot with some back lighting. The wind moved the tail out of the focal plane a bit, but I decided to live with it. I need to get back into some shooting, loading, and stock work now. Got some Wy elk applications filled out and off in the mail Friday.

Lookin' pretty good.
Seems you've gone to a thicker Body Yarn. I'll guess that you had been using only single or double plies, but switched to a full yarn piece, recommended for this size, for this latest example.
In that case, which I like, I suggest you go back down to the usual 2 Skip-a-Wrap for the Crest.


I'm not sure what you mean by "keep the tail strands slanted upward".
My concern was keeping the pieces vertically stacked on each other, all in the same plane:





All of my Aztecs have the first wrap of BY done solo around the shank under the tail pieces, like so:


It ought not give "too much of an upward cant", certainly nothing that could resist the water pulling the tail back during a strip.
I don't know what your test was, but I don't see that you can object to any of the flies I've pictured in this thread, all made with that 'crupper'.




You should trim the Tail Support Piece much more:

It's meant to add some stiffness there at the beginning of the bend, to hold the tail fibers up and away, to prevent fouling; and to be stiff, the fibers need to be short.
It's a little tire-chock wedge, if you will.



.

Macrabbit:

Ever worked up or heard of any one making up some tiny versions? Like size 16's or 18's? We have some scattered high lakes with gazillions of 1/2 inch long or smaller greenish leeches. Ones waders can end up almost plastered after a couple hours in the water.

They've proven quite helpful and entertaining when a bunch of kids shows up with a swimming objective in ones favorite corner of a trout pond. Mention the leeches after about 5 minutes, and they exit the water screaming like the crowds in the Jaws movies. Then there's more screaming and running in place as options are formulated for their removal once on the bank.

Think I'll work some up this spring or early summer and give them a try on rainbow and brookies.

Now I think you're just testing me!!

Long ago I tied this:

But it was only as a stunt.
One's got to begin splitting individual plies for such a Crest.


What you need is the Aztec Leech:

That's the fly I've demonstrated at the last few FFF Conclaves.
It might show up as a Fly of the Month on their site one of these days.
I'll send some, and instructions, to you.
Member troutfly had some good success up in Canada with some.

Probably not worth putting a Crest on something that tiny. Some plies coming off as a tail, with a Body Yarn wound to the head, should do it.
Remember, there's not much wiggle in a tail shorter than 1.5 inches.


I've never seen such a congregation of leeches as you describe. That'd be neat. (Although Roosevelt probably wasn't too pleased with such when he was in the Amazon.)

While reading some of the notes, I came across a pair of proportion generalizations-
Tail lenth (beyond rear of shank) = 2x shank length.
Rear of Crest = gape length.

No. Just curious. With retirement, I see more time in the future.

Be sure to not suggest to Art that he start up a squid-themed Swap next year...

And-
If I feel too much resistance while I'm drawing the comb through the fibers, I immediately let the comb twist away and out. Yarn, as yarn, is pretty strong; but the individual fibers that compose the yarn are weak, easily broken.
Don't force the comb through. Pull out and [bleep] the logjam out by attacking it differently with the comb or by bodkining.

I've tied a few now with a little color. I still need to try the heavy oval tinsel you sent up. I also noticed the wife has a great tinsel supply in her sewing closet in several colors. The indoor lighting doesn't do much to show the center red on the Aztec. The fly on the left is an unnamed black and gold pattern that's my favorite for summer steelhead in clear waters. Those fish can't be too bright if they bite something with that much hook showing, but they do. Butt is gold tinsel, tail = golden pheasant tippet, rib = fine gold oval tinsel, body = dubbed black rabbit, wing = golden pheasant rump feather, hackle = black. These are both size 1.5 hooks.

Your pheasantish fly is a pretty one. But I'm not accustomed to all that hook hanging out.
I agree about the lack of logic on the fish's part. (And yet 'we' fly tiers worry about, for instance, how mottled our soft hackles are- do they look enough like leg joints? Who's illogical, now?).

Golden pheasant and jungle cock-- you spare no expense!
At less than a penny per foot for yarn, a simple Aztec costs, for practical purposes, a hook.
At a quick calculation, adding a cock eye (are your flies cock-eyed? ) quintuples the cost!

Your Aztec is prettier than before- a neater, more 'finished' trim; the tail pieces are vertically stacked; and it looks like you cut the TSP short enough to be stiff enough to do its job (unless it's just very long and blended with the tail, and that is why the white in the tail seems so much more full for 3/4 of its length).

Notice how your rear lower Crest leg, unsupported as it is, projects backward instead of straight down. It does no harm in this context; I point it out so all can imagine the same situation at the front of the top Crest, and how necessary it is to have a supporting wrap of Body Yarn in front of the frontmost leg of the Crest Loop.

It's fun playing with colors. Your fly looks good.
Though, once again- what are those silly fish thinking, taking such harlequin offerings?

Keep it up!

Obviously one is not matching the hatch for steelhead. I think anything that moves into their space when they are in the mood is either hit in anger or taken in the spirit of the chase. I've not yet been able to force myself to simply try a bare hook. Perhaps if I can get a good 7 or 8 fish day going I'll tie a clean one on and give it a run through some hot spots.

Hee-hee: too bad you're not in this year's Swap- you could try my damselfly egg pattern! (Wait for MissTreated to post pics- you'll get a little giggle.)

Wanted to get in on that, but have several hunter safety classes to coordinate in the county and our ground squirrels are emerging. Also, there may be some spring steelhead opportunities if I can get this foot out of its cast. I'm real tired of crutches. If I had broken a hip or had a knee replacment, they would have had me out and walking in week. Damsels are the cats meow on our still waters in June around here. Mostly I just tie up long shanked hare's ears and they seem to work.

Tried some of the oval silver tinsel. Skipped two and put stands in on the third turn. It's nice to work with on these heavy hooks, as one can really reef down on that stuff. I forgot to put somethin in for scale, but it's the same size hook as those above with the entire fly being about 3" long. A fly thus tied should certainly not fall apart.


Did a better job on combing out the tail on this one ending with about a 4 inch long fly. I put in just a
couple of strands of crystal flash too.

Lookin' purty.
But it seems that you're not trimming those Tail Support Pieces short. Oh, well; I've tried.

I think one needs to work at shredding an Aztec. They hold up very well.
I use quite a bit of force while wrapping the BY; I'm in serious danger of bending the the smaller hooks.

(If one ever wants to make an even sparser Crest- two solo wraps between Crest Loops, and two BY wraps within the CLs.)

Long-shanked Hare's Ears, tied skinny, sounds like a good enough plan.

Macrabbit: I'll get the comb out again and try thinning the tail support. Got to start prepping for some Hunter Ed classes, so I'll probably put the tying boxes away for a bit.