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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Oh and great call yet again,to refrain ALL things the rifle/glass and blades.
Laffin'!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 317
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Campfire Member
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Just another voice with nothing to say that can't seem to realize that no one is listening ...........
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Just facts,falling on crossed-eyes and drooling pie holes and their Imaginations.
Which is why all you Window Lickers refrain rifles/glass and blades.
Too [bleep] funny!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,185
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,185 |
I fail to see how increased magnification can control reticle movement or improve one's hold thereby improving group size.
Whatever is going on with a 6X is certainly going on with a 24X. Holding hard gives the same results with either.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Been known to be a fact..............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,794
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,794 |
Been known to be a fact..............(grin) Once again, Mr Pitiful makes a post that certainly reveals his ignorance. Why do the Bench shooters use the high powered glass? Why do the Silhouette shooters use such high powered glass for the distance shot?? Of course you have to know how to use the upgraded equipment otherwise it's just a matter of ego or trying to buy your way into the winner's circle. Kinda like putting a rediculously overprice Mcswirly stock on a $200 gun and calling it a custom rifle. Maybe adding a skull and cross bones to show your adultness.
Aim for the exit hole.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Sugartits,you can't shoot to 6x realities,nor close.
Do enjoy your whine though.
Laffin'!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,185
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,185 |
Once again, Mr Pitiful makes a post that certainly reveals his ignorance. Why do the Bench shooters use the high powered glass? Why do the Silhouette shooters use such high powered glass for the distance shot?? Of course you have to know how to use the upgraded equipment otherwise it's just a matter of ego or trying to buy your way into the winner's circle. How is it some pretty impressive groups are shot with open sights in high-power comps and at Perry?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Been known to be a fact..............(grin) Once again, Mr Pitiful makes a post that certainly reveals his ignorance. Why do the Bench shooters use the high powered glass? Why do the Silhouette shooters use such high powered glass for the distance shot?? Of course you have to know how to use the upgraded equipment otherwise it's just a matter of ego or trying to buy your way into the winner's circle. Kinda like putting a rediculously overprice Mcswirly stock on a $200 gun and calling it a custom rifle. Maybe adding a skull and cross bones to show your adultness. Sure would like to see some of your Imaginary rifles,that are giving you real troubles. Laffin'!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168 |
I fail to see how increased magnification can control reticle movement or improve one's hold thereby improving group size.
Whatever is going on with a 6X is certainly going on with a 24X. Holding hard gives the same results with either.
Does this apply to 1x as well? If one can can shoot a 0.5" group at 100 with 24X they can shoot that with 6X or 1X with equal ease?
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Is there a lineal extrapolation to X's and Agg sizing?
Nope.
Do Window Lickers IMAGINE lotsa schit?
Yep....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,185
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
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I fail to see how increased magnification can control reticle movement or improve one's hold thereby improving group size.
Whatever is going on with a 6X is certainly going on with a 24X. Holding hard gives the same results with either.
Does this apply to 1x as well? If one can can shoot a 0.5" group at 100 with 24X they can shoot that with 6X or 1X with equal ease? Simply put, yes. Magnification of a day scope has nothing to do with the fundamentals of steady hold, proper breathing, alignment or follow through. That's what gives results. It's individual as to what one's eye prefers as an aiming point. Irons, crosshairs, post and wire, dot, circle, triangle... Heck, I'd go so far as to say the 24X most likely would be a detractor to good groups at 100y, even when one really knows how to hold hard. Seen more than one shooter with high magnification on a rifle who could not relax to provide a clean, consistant break of the trigger whenever the reticle was moving. Higher magnification will amplify movement exponentially. I can for sure state high magnification is a handicap when the conditions are poor. Especially at distances past the usual 100y or 100m load testing distance.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168 |
I fail to see how increased magnification can control reticle movement or improve one's hold thereby improving group size.
Whatever is going on with a 6X is certainly going on with a 24X. Holding hard gives the same results with either.
Does this apply to 1x as well? If one can can shoot a 0.5" group at 100 with 24X they can shoot that with 6X or 1X with equal ease? Simply put, yes. Magnification of a day scope has nothing to do with the fundamentals of steady hold, proper breathing, alignment or follow through. That's what gives results. It's individual as to what one's eye prefers as an aiming point. Irons, crosshairs, post and wire, dot, circle, triangle... Heck, I'd go so far as to say the 24X most likely would be a detractor to good groups at 100y, even when one really knows how to hold hard. Seen more than one shooter with high magnification on a rifle who could not relax to provide a clean, consistant break of the trigger whenever the reticle was moving. Higher magnification will amplify movement exponentially. I can for sure state high magnification is a handicap when the conditions are poor. Especially at distances past the usual 100y or 100m load testing distance. I am confused, I can't see 0.5 at a 100 without magnification, How am I going to be able to shoot it?
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Iron sight aperture ,matching the targets subtended value.
You'll note prior,that correlation to aiming point size reference to a given system,was plainly mentioned.
Do you idiots really shoot this little?................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,185
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,185 |
I am confused, I can't see 0.5 at a 100 without magnification, How am I going to be able to shoot it? We have that in common. I can not see nearly as well as I could years ago. Holding a rifle the same way every shot, with the same sight picture, with the same breath control, with the same trigger break, and with the same follow through will produce a consistant result. Cutting a hole the size of an asprin in a target at 100y does not require "seeing" that aspirin at 100y. Yep, a good stick with a shooter who can be consistant can hit that asprin sized hole again. Many open iron sight shooters have proven that to be possible.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
For the Do-nothin' Ladies and their Imaginations.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168 |
I find its not that way for me. Iron sight wise I struggle to shoot 2 MOA these days (though there was time when I could shoot a pretty regular 1 moa with irons), I can get in the range of .75 MoA with a 4X and with 14X I can shoot to at least .5moa.
I have tried to match targets to the reticles but obviously haven't been able to do it well enough.
In a practical sense its easier to control movement/Natural POA/ even heart beat when you can see its effects, at least for me.
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,185
Campfire Tracker
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I understand what you are saying. But, where does the distinction fall between a temporary improvement of one's technique and correcting shooting errors over actual load development? One has to be constant. If 14X gives you that consistency, one must use it throughout the entire load development process.
Most do not see such a difference in results using higher magnification. .25 is well above average I have observed, and seen in valid testing.
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Campfire Tracker
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Several years ago, in tests performed by the Army Marksmanship Training Unit at Ft. Benning GA, it was determined that a person could make an aiming error with up to an 8 power scope and not be able to tell it.
This people doing the testing were Olympiac Gold Medal shooters and other championship shooters.
After reading that, I always made it a point to try to use at least an 8 power scope or above, if one was available.
You can get close with lower power, and also iron sights, but sometimes, close is not good enough, unless you are throwing hand granades.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Several years ago, in tests performed by the Army Marksmanship Training Unit at Ft. Benning GA, it was determined that a person could make an aiming error with up to an 8 power scope and not be able to tell it.
This people doing the testing were Olympiac Gold Medal shooters and other championship shooters.
After reading that, I always made it a point to try to use at least an 8 power scope or above, if one was available.
You can get close with lower power, and also iron sights, but sometimes, close is not good enough, unless you are throwing hand granades. Do you realize how stupid what you just posted really is?
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