Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR10s, anybody else shooting real live rifle cartridges?

I'm a dinosaur, therefore home land defence rifles are 30 caliber.
I started out with Lake City military brass and found some good loads, but had the problem of two separate groups in each lot of 100 rounds of reloads. The I found a good buy on Federal match brass and some 168 grain fmjbt that corrected that problem. Now I have another problem. The first 10 rounds, after a through cleaning, scatters the shots all over a 10 inch circle then settles into a nice tight 2-3 inch group. Should add this is at 300 yards.
Any way, lets talk about homeland defence rifles and leave the varmit cartridges to the varmit hunters.
Yes, I know I'm being a butt head. I like things that I shoot to stay shot.
Jim

leave the barrel "dirty" till accuracy goes away. mine always takes a few
warm-up pills then settles in.
low-lifes ARE vermin. so your 30 cal has some merit. however, if they are on my posted land then i might need to "range" them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> that finds me looking for a laser flat splatter gun <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

woofer

Woofer
For real long range I like my 25-06 with 100 grain Sierras or Speer 100 grain spitzers.
What powder have you found to work best in your AR10?
Jim

arkypete,
Special Forces must agree with you. According to my latest copy of American Rifleman they are using Ar-15's in 6.8mm
(270 to you civilians).
I'll take a big bullet any time over a small bullet.
GWN

GreatWhiteNorth
There was a video of an Iraqi getting set to shoot a RPG and one of our guys shot him twice in the thorax with the M-4 with the super duper accurate 5.56 ammo.
The guy with the RPG turned and looked at the shooter with a 'Just what in hell do you think you are doing' look. It took two more 5.56 hits in the head to put the RPG shooter down.
A 30 caliber would have put him down with the same thorax hit.
Of course my Winchester 1886 with a 400 grain 45 cal slug would have stuffed him back under the rock he crawled out from under.
30 caliber is a reasonable combat cartridge.
Jim

Arky,

Have a couple of Dozen AR-10 to ride herd on at work.

Run 300 rounds or so of ball without cleaning, to break it in.

From there it will settle in, and the effect you are seeing will settle down.

Work it like the Mule that it is, and the things are happy with good ammo.


However we have found that gas port pressure issues seriously effect reliability with the things.

M-80 ball, and ammo that duplicates the pressure curve of M-80 is best.

Fed. GM 168 and 175gr might be spotty.

Hornady TAP Barrier 165gr, and 155gr Urban, and Cor-Bon 130gr DPX (Uses the Barnes Tripple Shock bullet) just flat RUNS!!!!!!

Funny you should post this when ya did.
Spent the day with the 10's for annual Tactical requals.

Portrugese, Australian, and South African Surplus are 2 hairs from M-80 Ball.

Commercial Budget loads pretty much suck.

Have had to visit the Factory in Geneseo a time or two to have issues addressed.

Each time is a positive and rewarding experience.

The folks at Armalite are good people from Mark Westrom on down to the gals that tap the roll pins into the rear sights.


I'm a hardcore FAL addict, but the folks at Armalite have won my trust.

If it ain't right, they will make it right, andtake it personally.

For loads.....

23.5gr H-4895
Sierra 168grMK.
Fed. GM Brass
2.80 OAL.
CCI BR-2 primer

Keep the chamber spotless.


Hpe this helps!
E4E

I keep a couple thousand of the Portrugese rounds as ready reserve and for repelling boarders, should Alquada (sp) send the camel corp up the James River. I scribbled down the sight changes for the Portrugese and taped it to the butt.
The best load so far has been Sierra's accuracy load for MK 175s with Lake City brass. The next best is a 168 grain bt fmj with Win LRs, Federal match brass and IMR 4064. When the rifle in on, those 168 grain bt fmj are stunningly accurate at 300 yards.
Something else I've discovered with this rifle, at least off the bench, avoid cheek weld on the butt stock. Off hand, prone, sitting, cheek weld is fine.
What sort of organization do you work for that has AR10s by the bunch?
Jim

Arky,

On the Nuke side of things.


All thebest!
E4E

Try the Sierra 155 grain "Palma" bullet. You can nail the desired port pressure on the nose. It is a pretty forgiving bullet, ogive wise. Stay on the fast side of RL-15 with the powders. Look at the loads for the 7.62/M-1A in the latest Hornady manual. For decent brass life look at Winchester or IMI. Lapua is tough also, but a bit spendy for this application. The Bonanza/Forster NM dies set for 7.62/.308 is perfectly matched to the AR-10 chamber.
The Armalite or Rock River Arms two stage match triggers make a huge difference in shoot-ability of these rifles.

I also have an AR 10 in 7.62. It shoots MOA or less with portuguese. I have a Leupy 4.5 X 14x 50 with the Mil dot reticule on it.
I do really like it but I find myself wondering about a "varmint or accuracy" type setup using the .25 wssm necked up to 6.5 mm in a much lighter AR 15 package.(Olympic Arms is currently making these from what I understand, but not necessarily in the 6.5 version)

IMO this would be the cats meow

The 6.5 whether in the remy or swedish version(loaded to modern pressures in a modern rifle) tromps all over the 7.62 nato at extended ranges starting from about 600 yds, m's or whatever you choose to measure by. The only advantage that the 7.62 retains is energy, but considering that the 7.62 starts out heavier it's not surprising and IMO almost any advantage the 7.62 has with energy will be equalized by the length of the 6.5 projectile. It may be a little slight on energy but it will almost certainly be making 2 holes with the proper bullet selection.
To me what is surprising is when you compare a 6.5 swede with a 7.62 or .308 is that there is no way IMO that a 6.5 swede isn't the equal of the .308 with better windage and drop then the .308( just look at 2 loaded rounds of each, loaded to max saami length), which only makes hitting easier at extended range. The 6.5wssm would/should stomp the 7.62 nato at long range and do it in a AR 15 sized package. YMMV. Just my 2 cts.


Jian Wa

6.5 PPC(Grendel) is nothing to snicker at in performance either. Especially longer range target work.

Rost,

I knew we had common ground somewhere!!!!

I ain't a fan of the Grendel, but the 6.5PPC in the Std. AR is a lust muffin of mine.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In a 16" Carbine, it nips at the heels of the 7.62 from a 16" carbine at distance.

Weighs less, and allows a guy to carry more stuff with the same loadout, or the same amount of stuff and more ammo.

But I don't wanna hijack this thread.

( I still have some leftover "Vertical habits" it seems <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

In the AR-10 Carbine, some velocity can be made up and penetration maintained by going to the Barnes 130's.
(The bullet is an absolute terror on sheet steel, windshields, and Gelatin!)

The balance of finding the right burn rate to accomodate the somewhat finicky AR-10 Carbine gas port timing/expansion ratio issue can be a challenge.

With loads worked up using H-335, 748,and varget, I found 748 to be the closest in reliability, but Varget was the most accurate.

One thing to keep in mind is extractor tension.

The AR-10 Carbines have major issues with extractor tension, and extractor bounce that the 20" rifles don't have.

Mind the worries over ammo if you seem to be gettng short cycling.

It's either a too large Gas tap, or more extractor spring needed.

There is a Hillbilly double extractor spring mod. if needed that works,but ain't very elegant.

Hornady Tap Barrier 165gr (Same as the interbond 165 load) seems to work really well and is quite accurate.

BAH!!!!!!!

Rambling.

Mind the mid range wind flags!
E4E

E4E

I'd assume the gas port can be custom sized on a new barrel to make things work out a bit better. The 10 is just an expensive platform though. But maybe coming down a bit in price?

Anyway it took a bit of tinkering to perfect the port size for my service tubes when I went to 90 JLKs years back. Get it right and life is good again.

Glad to know about the Barnes 130s-- TSX I'd assume.

Jeff

Rost,

I dunno about price.

But the gas port diameter is under severe scrutiny in Geneseo.

Enough so that Barrels being made and controlled in house seem to becoming soon.

Just know what I saw, and took as "Reason".

Mark Westrom is good people, and understands the value of his customers, and is trying constantly.

The 130gr Cor-Bon DPX is the TSX I have witnessed.

My own loads for accuracy and velocity limits have come short.

Might have something to do with not having the cash to spec a lot# of a custom propellant or something....;)

If you wish to chop a Buick in half, or lay low a 1,000lb critter within common hunting ranges with a .308 using factory ammo.....

It ain't an urban load for L.E.

Wish our guys in the ashtray were issued the same.

E4E

P.S.

The 6.8 might have a real "Factory load" here in a month or two.

Just keep an eyeball on the price and the numbers.

6.5PPC rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!