Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Why Do You Muzzleload?

There's a lot of factors in play for me. I shoot a very basic .54 cal CVA Hawkins. I've been carrying that rifle for well over 20 years now. I like the heft of it, as it's not a light weight gun. It just feels "right" somehow. I've always been impressed with the consistent accuracy of the gun. I worked on loads for the first several failed attempts, and now it's to the point that I know if I miss a shot, it's pilot error, and not an equipment issue.

When I carry the Hawkins, I feel like I'm getting back a little closer to the roots of what hunting was like in a bygone era. You have to think much more about getting into a good shooting position with the ML than you do with a center fire. Shots need to be more calculated. You can't just jam it through whatever shooting situation presents it's self and hope for the best. You've got one shot, and you absolutely must make it count.

It's cheap and fun to shoot. I don't even mind the cleaning-to me the hot soapy water at the day's end is just part of the fun. I like the looks I get when folks see me with that big gun. I've tried the in-lines, and while they are incredibly easy to use, for me, it's just not the same. If anything, I want to hang up my percussion gun and get a nice flinter. I've shot them many times, and it truly is a whole different game. The guys that can make their flinters hum are damned good riflemen in my book.

To quote Kipling, "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet." Such is the same when it comes to dedicatees of in-lines v. traditionals. The two are technically the same but fundamentally different. I suspect the differences between the two speak to basic differences in the personalities of those who use them.

Perhaps what the campfire needs is two muzzle loading forums.

Really? How so? Is a guy who appreciates both schizophrenic?

Edited to add: Seriously though, your contention above implies a consistency of "personality types" within both groups, which is an interesting observation. I haven't seen it myself, but then again, most of the guys I know who shoot muzzleloaders are not strict traditionalists.

I was referring to guys dedicated to one or the other, and who defend that dedication vociferously.

Guys who swing both ways I guess are perhaps a horse of a different color!

Bottom line: it's all good. I think those of us who harbor opposing viewpoints on this subject on a forum like this would get along fine in person, on a rifle range doing what we love, or in unity against the forces that would strip us of that right.

No, just means he goes both ways.




I figure they might wear pink boots but otherwise look like any ordinary guy.

It is interesting how many homo references you get here when talking about guns....




Couldn't agree more.

As far as defending one or the other vociferously, I think that's the province of traditionalists mostly, which is what I was getting at with my question above (the serious one).

Guys who hunt with traditional rifles or bows pretty much do it for consistent reasons (you know what they are), which could point to some basic similarities in personality.

Guys who hunt with in-lines do it primarily to expand their hunting seasons, which IMO leaves a lot more room for variability in motivations and personalities.

For what it's worth.

And, last but not least, on the subject of "defending one or the other vociferously," guys who defend the use of in-lines normally do it in response to traditionalists who malign in-lines. It normally doesn't happen the other way around, i.e., guys who use in-lines don't normally malign traditional rifles in these kinds of debates. Lots of guys (probably most guys) who shoot in-lines think traditional rifles are pretty cool.

So the question is, why the need for traditionalists to malign in-lines? Why not just subscribe to the philosophy outlined by gnoahhh above?

Is it a need to feel superior, or what? Many times, I believe it is, so I'd ask, what is this feeling of superiority based on?

I've killed deer with traditional rifles and in-lines. As long as you're talking a caplock vs. an unscoped in-line with similar propellants and projectiles, the "challenge factor" is the same.

At a hunter advisory group meeting,CO DOW by thier own admission,would have outlawed inlines, but they let it get to far along. After that they jumped on anything pretty quick that did not lend itself to a traditonal type ML season.Scopes,optic sights smokeless powder, electronic ignition, sabots, all are illegal.

I was around when the ML season was established in CO.The intent was much as what has been posted about MO ML season.

The Colorado Muzzle Loader Associtation, which was at the time, all traditional shooters,lobbied to get a ML season going. At the time it was a small group,much like the archery hunters in the70's, and the DOW let it in.

If there was any way for CO DOW to do it with out a hugh outcry from hunters, the inlines would be banned immdiately.

I shoot both.

That's a crock. According to the people I talked to at the DOW. One of 'em was responsible for coordinating all inputs on muzzleloader regs.

Not sure who you talked to, but the DOW is has a lot of different people working for it, all with their own opinions.

Besides, if they're trying to recruit more hunters (they are) why on earth would they outlaw something as popular as in-lines for the special early season?

That just flat doesn't make sense.

Let me add a little background. In 2003 I wrote an article for publication on this subject, traditional vs. modern muzzleloaders, and specifically, the rationale for Colorado's muzzleloader regs. The article was based on interviews with NMLRA, the Colorado State organization, and DOW, including the hunting regulations coordinator responsible for muzzleloader regs. The article was reviewed by DOW and they published it in their magazine.

What I said above about the Colorado regs was pretty much verbatim from the article, so it's fair to say it was as close as you're gonna get to the DOW position.

DOW has made a determination that an in-line ignition, by itself, offers no significant advantage over a sidelock. So if they were to ban in-lines, what would be their basis?

i have gotten the same thing smokepole from both Co and Id Dept . both separately and while in joint meetings .

but we should keep in mind that like all politicians , they say what the think most of the folks listening , want to hear .
i have had Idaho commissioners tell me one thing strait to my face over coffee
but then a couple days later over the phone when they think im someone else who may be against a given view . well the tune is sang differently ..
but changes are coming . there is alot of different reasons for that .
as i said before things are not so black and white . many times they have nothing to do with what is seen on the surface or what we are being told .
So as the winds of politics change . So will the winds of hunting in this state anyway .


PS.
i wouldn�t count on what the regulations saying as being the opinion of anyone . especially game commissions .
i can tell you with 100% certainty that if it was not for the governor of Idaho a couple years back we would not have seen the changes we did .

See here . The commissioners sit by the pleasure of the governor. If they want to say on the board . They jump when he says jump
Again . Things are not always what they seem

Well, that's still Colorado, not the other 49 sates. Us trad guys don't rely on techy stuff to do for us what we can do for ourselves. I won't repeat some of the things I've been told by some in-line users, before I said anymore than "I hunt with a flintlock". But I bet the older trad guys have heard the same things. Same with a recurve or longbow as opposed to cam actuated arrow launching device.

As a related example, if you realllyyy stretch it. I like to sail. I had my little boat, a 12 footer, at a small, local public lake. I was coming in to the ramp and there was this fella launching his high tech bass boat..that thing shined like new money and had more gizmos and gadgets on it than I can begin to tell you. He's watching me come in and his mouth is almost agape. Now this little lake doesn't see but very, very little sail boat traffic, maybe 2-3 times a year, and one could hardly call Missouri an end destination when it comes to sailing. Anyway...I jump out of the boat and the guy says, "that thing really goes, doesn't it". I said, "well...yes, it does". He looked that simple little boat over like it was from outer space. Then asked, "where's the motor?" Doesn't have one...you'd have thought I kicked him in the testicles...and he told me I was nuts whereupon I got a too lengthy semi-lecture on how much better his bass boat was than my simple little 12 foot, sloop rigged sail boat. I said to him, "Well, I like to sail, and how do you think Columbus got here?" He stormed off incredulous and I hadn't said more than 20 words and none in a caustic or sarcastic manner. I'm glad I didn't ask him how much gas it used.

is it just me or do the traditional guys seem to be whiners?

I hunts with a flintlock!

Yeah well guess what, thats a modern upgrade compared to a matchlock!

I am just relaying what was presented at the meeting.
This was in Sept,2009.When they were working on the next 5 year big game structure. One of the CO DOW game commissioners was also at that meeting.Forget his name,but he did not refute that statment.

At least 75% of the DOW local Wildlife officers were there and I think it was Brian Davies who made the statment.

Discussion was concerning what was reccomended in ways of changes for archery, ML, and rifle seasons and they also had statistics of the number of hunters they were seeing in each season.

Don't get pissed at me because someone said something you do not agree with.I actually attend any meetings that are held in Colo Sprgs, rather than relying on heresay on the internet.

As I stated ,I use both

Oh yeah? How about the guy who hunts with an atlatl? But I guess that's an upgrade from a pointy stick.

I guess I gotta get me a rocket gun to one up the magnum rifle shooters. (Too bad the Gyrojet fizzled.)

I suppose a lot of people down through the ages gloated over their predecessor's technological "disadvantages". They forgot, however, the old axiom "once a weapon, always a weapon".

Everybody is free to shoot what they bloody well want. My personal choice when hunting with a ML is to use either an original, or a faithful copy of one, because it allows me to connect with those who came before us and to escape the from the modern world for a bit. Taking a chunk of plastic/stainless steel/and state-of-the-art optics into the woods with me is akin to taking the laptop/Blackberry on vacation to a Caribbean island. In the same vein, when hunting with a CF rifle I invariably choose to do it with a 100 year old Savage lever gun with iron sights, or a pre-war Mauser sporter again with iron sights. I don't want to be reminded of high-tech when sitting in the woods on an autumn day. I get enough of that in my day-to-day life.

It's the guys who don't get it, whether they are in-line devotees or not, that I feel sorry for.

ha in the general season you can use a rock if you want .

as to the match lock . i been thinking about that one for some time . might be kinda cool .
I have had deer and elk walk right up on me while smoking my pipe . So I cant see why that wouldn�t happen with a burning fuse

maybe we could get an category going at some of the shoots as well .
but then im thinking that the caplock guys get enough crap when they lose to flintlocks . might just push them over the edge if the lost to a matchlock LOL .
Bet someone would pitch a fit about walking the trail with a horn and a hot fuse though .
Surly some kind of safety issue would come up .
Allways seems to be some kind of catch doesn�t there

sadly though smoke pole . we dont live in an age where what given people want , in any given state , really maters .
even though as i said before , every state is different .
just as soon as someone stands up with enough backing you have folks from every where piling on . but thats politics isnt it �
As for me if Idaho wants to bring back traditional hunts . Im all for it .
That doesn�t mean however that I will hunt in them unless it�s a state wide type of hunt .
Tell that happens . Ill hunt the general season with my flintlock or maybe a fuse lock , right along side the center fire , pistol , shotgun , archers , rock throwers , knife hunters , spear hunter ����� because that�s what the any weapons season allows .
You know the funny part though ?
Taking game with your pickup , is still not allowed LOL

saddlesore, I ain't pissed at you, and whether I agree with the statement or not is beside the point.

I just think it's a crock and it ain't gonna happen. The last thing DOW is going to do any time soon is make a move like this that has the potential to lower the number of elk hunters and the associated revenues. It's probably more about revenues than anything else.

And still there's the question--if Colorado has determined that an inline offers no significant advantage over a sidelock, what would be the basis of banning in-lines? They're ugly? They're not historically correct? (lots of sidelocks aren't either). Traditional rifle shooters don't like 'em?

Exactly. I hunt in a place that has no cell phone reception for the reasons you cited above. I hunt out of a backpack, so I go a few miles in and don't see many other hunters back there. I like it that way. I go for the solitude, sometimes with a hunting partner but many times by myself. I also go for the physical part of it--it's challenging to knock down an elk, break it down, and pack it out on my own, especially the older I get. And it's a real feeling of accomplishment when all the meat is finally on ice.

But I do use "high-tech gadgets" and modern equipment, mostly lightweight stuff because it all goes on my back. Lightweight silnylon for a tent; goretex in my boots, a cartridge stove, titanium cookware, and so on. And a stainless rifle with plastic stock--one of the lightest I could find (yes cap, I know, there are lightweight traditional rifles) All this stuff allows me to go farther in where there are fewer people and hunt harder; I make no apologies for it. And I use a cartridge stove with dehydrated food so I can come back to the tent well after dark, boil some water, eat, and fall into bed in short order without having to cut wood and cook the pot of beans I'd be eating if I eschewed all things modern.


But I've gotta say, after the first quote above, this next one (below) is curious.



I don't personally ever want to use a cell phone when I'm hunting, but I'm not gonna say I feel sorry for a guy who does, because that's the ultimate in condescension. I've seen guys with different family situations do it, and some guys who just want to talk to their wives at night, and I never thought poorly of them for it or felt sorry for them.

Likewise with the talk about "high-tech gadgetry." Yeah, traditional rifles are cool, but probably not many traditional shooters sleep in wool blankets on a bed of pine needles when it's cold and there's a nice modern sleeping bag and foam pad available. Some do. And not many get to the trailhead on horseback.

here you go smokepole
now this is cool LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy3Oct1-AWY&feature=related

Yeah cap, I'll be packin' one of those on my next hunt!

That guy was an impostor though, he was wearing modern blue jeans and a camoflage hat.

ha what ever floats his boat . but what do you exspect from a Ruger Rep LOL

myself i wouldnt gig him on it .

i seriously think that would be a kick in the pants . may have to find time to make me one of those

I switched to muzzle loaders to get better ballistics and more pleasant shooting over fosters slugs. I've hunted the late season a couple of times as well, but I mainly did it for firearms (slug zone) season. Using a MLII with AA5744 currently.