Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles R17 and the 300 WSM

Been doing some work with a 300 WSM this winter.

M70 stls with 23" factory tube (one of the older ones)
Talley
3-10 Leo with M1
Hunters Edge

(weighs 7lb 11 oz just like this)

Shoots well, and recoil is very easy and user friendly.

It luvs 155 Scenars, 180 Horn flat bases and believe it or not 125 TNT's but I use R15 with this one...

I shot it the other day @ 40* (and a truck load of wind, never had to duck tape a clock to the bench to do clork work b4 this day..ouch) Only had a couple bullets to work with so it's not a real complete check but gives a good idea:

67/150 Horn Bt= 3093 and 3137

69/155 Scenar= 3308 and 3267

70/155 Scenar= 3367 (only had 1 round)

Bolt lift seemed a bit stout with the 70 load but hands were like frozen hockey pucks so not sure. But the primer was beginning to crater a bit. I had one 150 Horn load but it didn't read so I don't know what it ran but it had the same crater effect.

Think I'll try 68 and just go with it, with a LRF and a M1 on top I see no reason to horse it as it's easy enough to turn in a bit mo.

Have a super day!

Dober

Mark
Did you do any R17 with the 180s yet????
Thanks
Tim

Dober,

You ever try RL17 and anything 165 ?

Those 155 Scenars have been calling to me too !!!

I might have to try them out of my GAP 300WSM.

TIA,

Tony

I have shot the 180's not sure if I clocked them, the Horn flat bases shot very well.

The 168 NBT, seems to wanna shoot and if I could get it to shoot like the Scenar I'd be very happy. The 165 Horn Bt did ok but wasn't a rock star.

Give em a try out of you Gap Tony, thinking they'll perk very well. Glad as heck that Scenar (Pat) turned me onto them.

Dober

Interesting report Dober!

I still haven't shot any yet but figured 67-68 grains would be top end charges given 64-65 grains is top for 180's.

You found pressure at 70? Of course lot to lot variation/barrels is a factor.
Either way good info!

RL 17 with 155 Scenars in a factory 24" Rem 300 WSM
65 2912
65.5 2991
66 3088
66.5 3089
67 3152
67.5 3162
68 3184
68.5 3233
69 3286

180 Etip
64 2940
64.5 2994
65 3016
65.5 3047
66 3061

180 BTip
64 2922
64.5 2964
65 2985
65.5 3017
66 3060
66.5 3089

200 Accubond
62 2807
62.5 2821
63 2838
63.5 2884

Sammers--I shot 65 with the 180 horn the other day, didn't clock it but the group was good. Will clock and shoot again soon.

Dober

Learning, very interesting info also.
I got similiar velocity using a grain or two less powder.
66 grains of '17 and a 180 ET would blow my chit up.....(grin)


Dober, I think 64 grains get me about 3000-3030fps with 180's.
Figured 3200 with 150's would be just fine!

Sammer, my last 300 WSM would only take 64.5 RL17 with 180's, the latest 300 WSM will take 65.0 so far, and looks like 65.5 will be no problem either.

I'll be running 17 this weekend under 180 Partitions and Accubonds in my 300 WSM. In my SAUM, I broke 3k with less than max load and 180 Partitions. I still think that a bit warm in a SAUM. Accuracy was acceptable but didn't beat H4350 although 4350 was a good bit slower.

Even if it was poking along, I know a bull that hated the SAUM and Accubonds this past year <G>

65 and 180 BT =3050 and bolt eltighto

LC

Where I'm comfortable running the 300 WSM with a 180 and RL17 is around 3,035 (24" bbl). My 23" bbl will make me comfortable at 3,000.

In my opinion, R17 really shines with 165 bullets. In my Kimber 8400 (24" barrel), I have generally been able to work up to 3180fps in Hornady GMX 165s, Hornady btsp's, and Nosler BT's with out pressure signs. Generally 66gr. is my comfortable max in various 165's and 68 gr. is about max in 150's for my rifle. I easily get another 100 fps with R17 over IMR 4350 before any pressure signs begin to show.

64gr R17 Hornady 165 GMX 3072
66gr. R17 Hornady 165 GMX 3180 No bolt stiffness

64gr R17 Hornady 165 btsp 3072
66gr R17 Hornady 165 btsp 3182 No bolt stiffness

150's
Nos bt
63gr R17 3065
68gr R17 3325 (Safe Max for my rifle)

168 TTSX over 66.5 gr of R17 gives me cloverleaf accuracy at 3100 fps. I worked up above 67.5 (book max is 68.5 as I recall) but the accuracy was best at 66.5. No pressure whatsoever at that and an acceptable SD of 11. That load also matches well with the Zeiss Rapid Z 600 reticle on 9x. I've confirmed that out to 600.

You could do the same with a 165 NAB, 168 NBT, or 168 AMAX if you want a more lightly constructed bullet.

Fellas,

Thanks for the great information on the RL17 and 16x's

Awesome, got me fired up to try some....

Tony

Not to be an RL17 kill-joy here as I use it myself. Let`s all try that new Hodgdon Superperformance powder in our 300 WSMs too.

300 WSM Hodgdon prelim #s are slightly better than are Alliant`s RL17 300 WSM #s. Hopefully it`ll have the same or better accuracy as RL17.

When will the Superformance be available???

............Sometime early this year.

I for one am not going to use a temp sensitive ball powder in the further pursuit of another 50 fps...

If the R17 doesn't do it for you, give H4350 a try.

I used both in my A7 and the H4350 came out a clear winner in the accuracy department, was neck and neck in speed, and fared better in the SD department.

The "extreme" temp. stability is just the cherry on top.

Just a thought.

What kinds of ES's were you getting with H4350? And with what cases and primers?

When I did a bit of testing last winter in terms of temp stability H4350 didn't do as well as I had heard it was supposed to. Can't recall the exact numbers but know that R17 did as well and maybe better in that regards. At least that's what my findings told me

What kinds of tests have you personally done Dave in testing the temp stability? I only ask this cause I hear a lot of people talk about that, but when I ask them how they conducted their tests it comes out that they didn't actually do any and were passing on what they'd heard or read.

Now I'm not saying that's your style but I would like to hear about the testing you did and how H4350 did for you in different temps?

Thx 4 your time

Dober

..............Although I could be mistaken, I was under the assumption that their new powder was temp in-sensative.

Their site says nothing about it and it isn't in the "Extreme" line of powders... seems to me if it were temp stable they'd be bragging it up. but I've been wrong before.

What, no love for the Barnes 180TSX and the 300WSM?

Mastadons are gone so no luv from me...grin

If I were to use a 180 it'd be the Horn or the Nozler Pt or NBT.

Dober

I have loaded the 300 WSM with 165 GMXs and RL-17

68 grains 3221 fps


24" 3 groove Benchmark barrel.

8mmwapiti

Fair questions Mark.

I tested at 80 degrees in late summer, and then again recently (January)at around 10 degrees. I'll have to check my notes to be sure, but I think I wasn't getting any more than about 30 fps spread witht the H4350.

In both cases we (two of us) had several rifles in the rotation with one bench shared. Ammo/rifles were in the back of the truck and were "acclimated" for lack of a better word.

Brass is Norma. Primers are Federal Match 215s.

Maybe not the most scientific approach, but enough to convince me the powder was the right choice for me.

Dave

Thx Dave-were you using the exact same brass, powder lot etc?

Thx
Dober

I was Dober. I bought three pounds of the H4350 from local Cabelas and 100 rounds of the brass at the same time.

Primers were a local reloading shop, but otherwise same, same.

For what it's worth, the results I had in my little lw Model 7 .243 were about the same witht the H4350.

Course, it was the same powder.

Kool news thx!

Dober

I've got a .280 Mountain Rifle on the way that I'm going to try that H4350 on as well with 140 ABs and 140 TTSXs. I'll let you know how that works out if you're interested.

I figure I owe you that much since you and Sam in large part talked me into the A7 that has treated me so well thus far.

Dave

That A7 is a Rock Star aint it!

Dober

Indeed. That thing is so boringly accurate that I almost can't stand it.

It's at McMillan being used for mold development as we speak.

AIN't that the truth!

I bought another one for my son and then picked up a 25-06.

I need to try some RL17. I don't have a lot of experience with the .300 WSM, but my current example struggles to do much more than 3000 FPS with 165s and Hunter, H4350 or RL22. It also seems to run more on the ragged edge of pressure than the Win Mag version. With that said, even at "only" 3000 fps, it is a great cartridge.

...................Appears like you just may have a slower bore? According to Alliant, 68 gr of RL17 using a 165 grainer, gets 3217 from a 24" barrel. Even if your bore is somewhat slower, I would think that you should be able to exceed 3150 fps with a 165 assuming you have a 23" or 24" barrel.

One of my RL17 300 WSM recipes and hunting loads that I worked up to is, 68.2 gr RL17 behind a 168 gr Berger VLD @ 3042 fps. Slow you might think? Well not really when you consider that this velocity is from a 16.5" barreled Ruger Frontier shorty carbine!..............

FYI-I've been doing a fair bit of testing with R17 lately and with the 150 Horn and 4 different primers 3200 is pretty much what I get with my 23" tube.

More to come on the testing, weathers been nice enough lately to warrant more range time.

Ciao

Dober

Mark, to me, the 23" 300 WSM and RL17 means 180's at 3,000, 165's at 3,100 and 150's at 3,200.

Sounds to me like you're right there.

BTW, did you locate any H4895?

Pretty sure you've got it pegged, wonder that you've got more 30 shorty mag experience than Olin and Win and all da others put together...

And so far 2 of 3 places don't have the H4895..go figure. Make it 3 for 3 hopefully this week down at Shedhorn. Yepper, just called them and they have it, go figure..

Dober

Guys thats about where I am with my 24" Tube. The loads that Alliant post are nutso in my rifle.
Havent shot in about two weeks...got to get out as spring is sorta here in Colo.

LC

LC, my last 24" 300 WSM went 3,035 with 180's and a 64.5 gr. load of RL17... My latest 23" will get to 3,000 but I won't push for more and might be content at 2,980.

Wish spring were here... snowing like the dickens right now with 5" new stuff overnight.

Yeah one of the places I'm showing today just called, said to drive your 4wd as they have a foot of snow in the drive..

More white = more water come dry fly time July/August...grin

Dober

Because of this thread, got my first can of RL17, I will find out next weekend if this will get my .300 WSM to 3100 with 165s (not that 3050 is not good enough). Probably will try in the .270 also.

DMD-R17 has done well for me in my 300 WSM, .270, 7/08, 338/06. Want to try it in my 375 Wby and 7 Mashburn Super with 140 Bergers.

Dober

Got around to trying R17 in my .300 WSM with great results. With a 168 NBT, Alliant's top load was producing about 3205 (Alliant lists 3217) with no pressure signs. Two grains off max gave the best accuracy (about 1/2"). Didn't get a good reading on that one, but would guess 3100. Other powders in that rifle only get to about 3050 before showing pressure. Also, strangely, RL17 seems to recoil noticeably more than 4350 or Hunter, even with my starting load for RL17, which was giving 3000 fps.

I think this may be THE powder for the .300 WSM.

I loaded up some 168 NBT's today, stuck 67 of R17 in. Is that about what you used DMD?

Thx
Dober

Mark,

I used 65, 66, 67 & 68 with Win brass and F215s and 24" barrel. Seated everything to 2.950." Velocities were 3025 for 65, no reading for 66, 3150 for 67 and 3205 for 68. The Alliant max of 68 for the 165 speer was just starting to crater the primer a little, but bolt lift was good and edges were round.

66 shot the best by far and should be 3100ish if I had to guess, so is probably what I will stick with.

Thx, I hope to give mine a go soon.

Dober

did something stupid and worked up some nosler 165 partitions in 1 grain increments, 67g gave me 3185, had one loaded at 68 and thought I'd just try it for curiosity sake. Velocity with 68gr r17 read 3289. Bolt was fairly stiff to open. Won't go that high again. Almost 3300 with a 165 is way too hot in my mind. Next time I won't be too lazy to pull a bullet and wont allow curiosity to let me push beyond what I know is a max load. Be careful about starting near the high side with this powder. Just my 2 cents.

Hello everyone
I started reloading few months ago. First with .223 and now I'm playing with .300WSM. Started with 68gr and worked up to 71gr with 1gr increasments. So far I only tested Superformance Powder in my .300WSM and it looks like 70gr of Superformance using Winchester Brass, CCI 250 primers and Barnes TTSX 168gr was ok. The group looked like this: width was .38" and the height 1.43"(this could be my fault since I don't go to range often). Using same components and powder charges I also tested Hornady GMX 165gr and didn't like it at all. They were all over the place.
I must say I had hard time seating TTSX and GMX bullets in new Win brass. What am I doing wrong?

Rifle: Winchester M70 Featherweight
Scope: Burris Ballistic Plex 3-9x40mm
I shot 50 factory rounds when I got this rifle just to see how it shoots and that was it. It's brand new. I tried Win XP3 180gr and Swift Scirocco A frame 180gr and Win Power Max Bonded 150gr. I was not impressed. The best group I had was with XP3 1.2"at 100m.

FWIW..did some work with a buddies browning 300 wsm last year. I think it's a 24" barrel. Factory fed premium with 165 partitions didn't shoot good, Clocked 3130 fps and sometimes showed light extractor marks.
We targeted the 168ttsx as a bullet we wanted to use. Worked up to 65.7 RE17 and got 3120 with no extractor marks and great accuracy. Some brass is now on the 6th loading with no signs of primer pocket loosening. This was an ez work up for us.....just like it's "supposed" to be!!

preliminary results show 66.5g of R17 to be on the money for me, yeilding 3" 3 shot groups at 300 yards. Now to play with COL...

Primers started cratering a bit more that I like at 68g. I was hugging the lands pretty close, so we'll see where backing off gets me. Happy customer so far though. Glad I tried 17 and scenars.

I tested some loads on weekend and got awesome results with Winchester 760 powder.

65.0gr Winchester 760
CCI 250
TTSX 168gr
Winchester brass
2.208" to ogive
I got 0.662" grup of 3 shots at 100m. First two were almost touching and the third one was few mm to the right (probably my fault). All three holes were in the same line.
Didn't bring chrony with me that day.

To all-

Has anyone here experienced the temp sensitivity with R17 that scenarshooter mentioned in other threads? I see that most posts here were made in March or before yet the velocities seem pretty good.

I'll have to look up the test I did, can't recall the temps but I don't recall seeing what Pat did. As I recall from my tests it appeared to be very workable to me. But, as I recall mine was a one time test with one lot. I'm thinking I saw about 70 or so in a drop.

Dober

Seems to me I wrote about it about 2 winters ago if anyone has time to search,find and bump the thread..?

Dober

Just found and bumped it, my shooting was @ 4 below and it seems
to me that Pats was @ 35 below. He's a lot tougher than me...grin

Dober

Yea, -35. I won't be out then either but the question arises, what is the vel loss at say 5-20 degrees which can certainly occur on about any NA game hunt. Apparently, you didn't see much change-- 70 fps won't change POI any more than "O" will lower taxes.

300 WSM , Rl-17 , 208 A-max

Went out yesterday evening and set up the chrono and IR screens. I brought 15 rounds to test 3 at each charge weight from 63-65 grains in .5 increments. I shot all round robin style and came out with some interesting results that I'll need another trip to verify. This test was done with CCI-Br-2's instead of the WLRM primers.

RL-17 & 208 A-max. 300WSM , 28" Kreiger barrel , 85 degrees F

63 grn, Average 2912 fps , ES- 47
63.5 grn, Average 2936 fps , ES- 43
64 grn, Average 2980 fps , ES- 33
64.5 grn, Average 2988 fps , ES- 37
65 grn, Average 3026 fps , ES- 21

I saw no pressure signs at all on the brass and primers. Bolt lift was normal. I believe these readings reliable since I was set up in the evening shade and had the IR screens in operation.

The extreme spread is still crappy but seems to tighten up a little as you get better case fill. More testing to follow but so far I feel this powder / bullet combo might get me where I want to be if I can control the ES.

I have done a little more testing and I am going with the 63.5 grain charge. I loaded 20 rounds yesterday to fine tune seating depth. I averaged 2951 fps with a 26 fps ES. POI was very consistent at .020 off the lands.

hi jon. looks like the lights have been turned off over there eh.

Since there has been a tad bit of recent interest to this thread - here are a few of my initial findings w/ R17...

WW Brass
Fed 215 Match
2.85" OAL
150 BT
90* F
CZ3/M1999 w/ 24"

Charge - Avg. fps
66- 3201
67- 3262
68- 3309
69- 3375

69 grains yielded no pressure signs, but I have no need for any faster.
Now on to see where the accuracy lies with the BT's and AB's and then on to Etip for deer season.

I know this in an old subject, but just thanking all that contributed to it. It really helped me with the new rifle that I just picked up. There is not a lot of available reloading information on re-17 out there yet. 300 WSM 66g re-17 180 Sierra BT. First group I tried at 200 shot really well. No preassure signs.

Kirk