Home Forums Birds & Dogs Waterfowl must stop shooting female ducks

On observing ducks every spring , I find that there are at least 5 to 6 male mallards to every female. This is observed both upstate New York and several ponds in new jersey.

Well, where I live we get quite a few Mallards. For over 10 years now our limit has been reduced to 2 Hen Mallards in the bag.

I believe the intent of this is for "mistake ducks".

It's often dark, and cloudy and sometimes incredibly foggy and it's VERY difficult at times to I.D. the Mallards correctly.

If they totally banned shooting Hens there'd be an incredible number of tickets written, which is not really the intent of the Wildlife Agencies, and probably not in the best interest of sport hunting either.

If you only observe ducks in the spring around here, your going to see alot more males, the females are nesting or have little ones and spend more time in less visable areas wereas the males seem to travel more freely in the open.

Jamie

also when I raised ducks, the hatch was usually more drakes than hens. miles

Bill,

"If they totally banned shooting Hens there'd be an incredible number of tickets written..."

Maybe for a season or two. The same argument was put forth when the ban on shooting hen pheasants was enacted.

Well...let's see, I've only been hunting ducks for about 46 years now...I'd pull out about 6 seasons when I wasn't for being in the service and in Vietnam etc.

I never really paid that much attention to drakes or hens UNTIL they did start limiting us to only shooting 1 or 2 hens.

I try to (almost) never shoot hens. I do WATCH carefully, and I can identify most common species of ducks where I hunt by profile.

However, as mentioned, WHERE I live and hunt it's often dark, and almost always overcast, just like the darkest days you see in David Maas paintings!

When it's that overcast, and the ducks are backlit sometimes a hen comes down out of the sky...it just happens.

And it's NOTHING like shooting a Pheasant that's just jumped up from 10-15 yards away!

Here's what I always try for...and NOTICE the sky behind me!

http://community.webshots.com/photo/86756348/86765070OUkCOC

This is a TYPICAL looking day during most of our duck season...pretty much just like Alaska!

Bill,

It's very common around here to pass on a pheasant because the sex of the bird can't be determined in time - there's always plenty of cover for birds to flush behind. I also hunt in areas that hold both grouse and pheasants, so the question of "Hen pheasant or grouse?" adds to the confusion.

There's no doubt that "drakes only" will change things and limit shot opportunites, but that's the whole point if increasing the duck population is the goal.

JOG,

Well I'm very familiar with the "Passing on the Unknown Bird" concept, and often get to practice it myself!

I live in a unique Goose Hunting area (look up Dusky Canada Goose for reference) where we have a Threatened Species in the midst of an overpopulation of non-theatened Canada Goose Species, and elegible hunters have to take Goose I.D. tests to determine different species, on the wing, of 7 subspecies that ALL look very similar!

That said, there IS a differnce between passing on a single, unknown bird and picking out a single Drake Mallard in a flock of dodging, swirling, twisting, group of 6-10 Mallards that are all working around coming into decoys in poor light.

I've seen REALLY GOOD hunters, all intent on shooting Drakes only, occasionally shooting a Hen by accident. It happens!

The state to the south of me, California, doesn't allow Pheasant hunting to begin before 8 a.m. in order to allow for better light conditions just so that hunters CAN better identify the "color" and markings on Pheasants. As I've mentioned our lighting is often worse, even later in the day than those 8 a.m. conditions down in sunny Cali!

The 2 Hen/7 bird limit "cushion" works very well. IF you try to shoot only Drakes it allows you that occasional accidental Hen without the jeopardy of getting a citation.

From what I've seen in areas where absolute prohibition on Hens is mandated, hunters often HIDE "illegal" shot birds in the field. Now that's a real waste!

Bill,

I agree with you for the most part - a TOTAL ban on hens would make for some difficult hunting. I also agree that a ban could result in a large number of tickets being issued, but like I mentioned, only for a season or two. Duck hunters would either have to adjust or face the possibility of losing the privilege.

Minnesota has a similar bag limit to what you describe, or maybe even a little more stringent. We can harvest six of the more �desirable� ducks with four of that number being mallards, and no more than two mallard hens. The hunt often turns into a drake-only situation quickly and lots of shots have to be passed up � everybody adjusts and the hens live another day.

I do believe the two-hen limit is a reasonable system, but we prove every year that a no-hen system could work. Lots of hunters are fortunate enough to have to hunt that way most of the day anyway.

Well if that is the whole goal, just stop hunting ducks completely.............seems simple to me.

There is a HUGE difference between one or two pheasants/grouse rising from the stubles and say 100 mallards circling overhead. I am not a hen shooter on purpose, but it does happen. It is the nature of the beast.


But like I said if the main goal is to increase population, stop shooting all ducks.

That is the ultimate goal of the Bunny Huggers anyway.

Steelhead,

"But like I said if the main goal is to increase population, stop shooting all ducks."

Actually, that would only have a minor effect on the overall population. Read up on it.

The ideal breeding ratio is 4-5 hens per drake. Anything more than that can actually reduce the total population as adult drakes can out-compete hens and ducklings for the available food and habitat.

If you say so. The point being that some hens will always be shot, so if population is the utltimate goal, stop shooting them.

I wonder how they managed to survive before we hunted them, since it is obvious we are doing them a BIG favor by killing drakes?

Steelhead,

�I wonder how they managed to survive before we hunted them, since it is obvious we are doing them a BIG favor by killing drakes?�

I�m not sure if that�s a rhetorical question, but I�ll take a whack at it.

The ideal situation for hunters is a game SURPLUS � that we have more game than habitat can support. Whitetail deer provide a good example. In many states the whitetail population exceeds the carrying capacity of the habitat. The only reason there aren�t massive winter die-offs is that hunters thin the herd in the fall. If the deer population wasn't reduced through hunting the population would eventually equilibrate at a density significantly lower than what it is now.

Managing the waterfowl population at a surplus is a much trickier proposition than for whitetails, but the basic premise is the same � protect the breeders. Most current studies indicate that declining waterfowl populations recent years are mostly due to over-shooting � not the loss of habitat. Those are not the words most hunters want to hear.

Well lets take this step by step and see if I follow.

1. The only way I know to ensure that hen's aren't shot is to have no open season on ducks, period. Lets face it, it is MUCH easier to distinguish a lone pheasant as a hen or cock vs distinguishing a hen from a drake at 40 yards in flooded timber with 30 birds dropping in. Obviously it is much simplier with deer and turkey.

2. We want to shot Hevi-shot, tungsten, whatever, since that increases our range on ducks. In turn, it becomes more difficult to distingush a hen from drake at 45 yards then at 20 yards. So again we are our own worse enemies, yes?

3. I am not a biologist by any means, but lets say no hens are harvested during a waterfowl season. Unfortunately the nesting habitat that following spring is not what it should be. There are now more hens competing for less available nesting grounds. That means more stress, less food. All I know is if there are 50 horny couples looking for a room, but only 30 rooms available, some will go without. That's it for my biology.

Same with the ducks, more hens doesn't mean more offspring. They are not mutually inclusive. If the nesting grounds can support it, than probably yes. If not, than no. Perhaps it would have been more beneficial to have killed some hens so that we could have limited the stress of overcrowding?

4. Assuming the nesting grounds can handle the increase in nesting hens, of course this will be on a year by year basis. Increase in prey is usually accompanied by an increase in predator. There go the ducks again.

Lets not even talk about geese. Damn if I know how to tell them apart.


End result, I don't know. I am an avid duck hunter, but I am pretty certain there are no certainties. I don't know the answer. I do believe we are searching for a short time cure to a long term problem.

Steelhead,

No matter how you slice it: tungsten, poor habitat, low nesting success rate, or any other scenario that negatively affects the duck population, hens are the critical element of population growth.

I�m against a total ban on shooting hens mostly for the reasons you and Bill describe � it�s not practical under current law. However, reducing the number of hens killed by hunters each year can only have one effect � population growth. I might be agreeable to a total ban where the penalty for minor offenses would be reasonable, say $5-$10 per hen with the money going to habitat conservation or predator control.

You describe yourself as an avid duck hunter, so I�ll assume you�ve hunted under �drake only� conditions. It does change the hunt, but it�s not impossible.

Yes, I do my best to not shot hens. Unfortunately that isn't the final answer to the situation. More hens don't mean more offspring, you have to factor in other variables. In a perfect world it would.

Well, if we banned shooting hens, then we would have to take gadwalls and black ducks off the roster of legal game. With those two species, no way can you tell the drakes from the hens in flight, especially during bad light. Guess goose hunting is done too!

This has got to be one of the dumbest subjects I have seen on this forum.

I can tell a hen from a drake Gadwall, when dead. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm all against bad fish and game legislation, and this is definately up there with the worst of them. We're talking about shooting at birds that fly in flocks, and with a shotgun, a multiple projectile weapon. No matter how good the hunter or shot, there are going to be drakes killed when hunting in those situations. The proposed rule changes would just be setting up hunters for being ticketed.

If the issue is too many ducks being taken, then reduce the limits. Don't come up with a scheme that'll make a lawbreaker out of the average decent hunter.

I shoot drakes as a conservation measure whenever I can, but most puddle ducks are in their summer plumage when they come through here. I'm can't say it would be impossible, but it would be very difficult to pick all drakes. Without the duck hunters, the local marshes (where ducks actually reproduce) would soon be aircraft hangars and strip malls.