Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 308 Win for Big Game: 180gr out of 20" Barrel

.........RedBeard.......That`s funny!....But bending physics so to speak, may not always fall on just a Marine`s shoulders.

But since we are on the subject of shorter barreled performance type of stuff here on this thread, here`s a little pop quiz for you. Without doing any research, homework, or going back to another thread and going strictly off the top of your head, let`s see how close you can come to my chrony`d "physics."

Here`s one of the rifles I have, and could you please tell me what the maximum velocities (your best guesstimate) should be without violating any physics when it comes to ballistics (no pressure signs).

Ruger Frontier
300 WSM
16.5" barrel
Using RL17 with all bullet weights below.

For a 155 gr bullet, the best maximum velocity in your opinion should be what?..............
For a 168 gr bullet, the best maximum velocity in your opinion should be what?..............
For a 190 gr bullet, the best maximum velocity in your opinion should be what?..............

Remember. Be honest and answer off the top of your head and no peeking around. LOL! I`d like to see how well I`m bending physics if at all.

And no help from those who have seen my past posts. LOL!

That was a goodun huh.....

Sako standard factory load are
Powerhead 165gr 2707 f/s
Arrowhead 180gr 2610 f/s
And factory is always on safe side...LOL
I had before 308 Midland 2000 (English made) and it work well for elk and moose. Today having .30-06 Balzer.
At the beginning use 200gr and 185gr Lapua Mega factory ammo but today mostly reload ammos down to .308 level. and 150gr bullet (lapua mega). Have also 9,3x64 brenneke with 293gr bullets but this waist of money to shoot moose with that caliber.

There are a lot of good answers here and here's mine.

I've hunted with short barreled 308 rifles for over 30 years and my bullet of choice for any game bigger than a small whitetail is a Nosler Partition, or lately I've been using the AccuBonds, in the 165 grain size.

I've killed everything from coyotes, when the opportunity came up, to elk and have never been disappointed in bullet performance.

The 180 works fine but IMO you run the risk of a pass through with little or no expansion and inadequate shock to anchor. If you don't mind blood trailing then you're fine but I prefer to have my game drop where I shoot them to save time and all the hard work that comes with digging them out of the brush in some deep ravine.

Just one man's opinion....

$bob$

Shane,

Are you doing anything to the brass to extend its life?

If not, is there any reason to believe that brass being used in an 'over pressure' situation would last for so many loadings?

I neck size only, but I don't think that would make a difference in overpressure expanding webs, and loosening primer pockets.

Sometimes things work that shouldn't and vice versa. I have a 200-gn load for my .358 that I ran up above 2650 fps with RL7; a massive overload according to the books but I get round primers and virtually no primer pocket loosening over many reloads...

I'm not as experienced a reloader as some here but I have loaded for a dozen different rifles and many thousands of rounds... I try to do as some here are saying and look at the situation in it's totality- what the books, rifle, chrono, and brass are telling me. QL would be a welcome addition but I'm too cheap <g>.

Mule Deer has very interesting points on this stuff, saying essentially that velocity equals pressure. Importantly, he says that equation works both ways. Maybe he'll elucidate.

To the OP: one bullet to consider is the 180 Ballistic Tip. Given what you want to do it makes a lot of sense.

My Nosler manual (fifth edition) shows 180s to 2700 fps in the 308, via 24" bbl. In my experience cutting barrel back, that should easily make 2600 in a 20".

Shane, guessing you weren't replying to me but in case you were, my load up top was for .358... It was just an example of going way over "book" but having NO signs of overpressure.

I was just making a general reference to some "book" data for 308/180 combo.

Every rifle/component combo is different, no doubt there.

Factory Rem 308s are pretty loosey-goosey, compared to a tight chamber/throated custom job.

There are a bunch of shooters on the 'hide loading 208s in the 308 over RL17, and depending on the rifle/brass variables, they seem to be finding pressure between 47-51 gr charge.

I wish I felt comfortable paraphrasing what MD was kind enough to explain to me with respect to pressure & velocity, but it's counterintuitive and I don't want to screw it up.

Well... in general (and John, feel free to b!tch-slap me if I screw this up): the effects of things like a rougher bore or looser chamber in our factory rifles, compared to the near-perfect pressure barrels the ballisticians use, are actually negligible. Therefore, pressure = velocity; a given pressure will make a given velocity, and the effects of the above won't matter much.

More non-intuitive yet, velocity = pressure. Therefore in most cases, pressure can be directly derived from an accurate chrono reading.

Finally some of the classic pressure signs are actually not. Such as sticky bolt lift; that can simply be lugs that are out of square and binding. So- say you are at max powder charge (says the book) and are experiencing sticky lift, but are 150 fps below the speed the book says with equal barrel length. Absent "real" pressure signs, like head expansion, you can add more powder until you hit that book speed, at which point your pressure will be very similar to the book pressure.

-------------

This is basically a refutation of the notion of "fast" and "slow" bores by the way.

Please take the above as MY retard-version of what MD might be saying. Do not attribute my words to him; any serious questions should be directed his way as I am still trying to wrap a brain around the implications of what I think he was telling me.

I buy that and will add 2,750 shouldn't be a problem with a 26" barrel. Definitely not with a 22" barrel.

Every 22" 308 I've had would run 180's 2,625 to 2,650 confortably. I had one 19" 308 that would do 2,600.

My other 308's had 18.5, 20 and 24" barrels but I never ran 180's in those.

I run 165 Interbonds over IMR4895 @ 2750, from a 20" Sako .308. Took a bull moose at 290 yards last fall, and it died a fairly quick death. You don't need super speed to kill, just put the bullet where it belongs, and the freezer will be full.

180 SST's run about 2610 in this 20" barrel, and brass lasts 20+ firings.

Blargon, that is very interesting indeed!

I've taken 3 elk with the 308 and 150's and 165's... this year's bull took a 165 Accubond at 2,750 at 304 yards. One shot, one elk down. Like Blargon said, you don't need super speed to kill.

The 'fire says that's not possible! Elk are too tough for the 308... I'm keeping my 308.

You guys know threads like this is what I think about during the day when I'm at work . You've got me so damn interested in the 308 winchester that my 30-06's are getting jealous!!! If I wasn't such a die hard fan of the 338 win mag I'd consider it for elk. I just might try the 308 on deer this year though.

Well gentleman I am sure out of your league with all that; calcs, this and that pressures ETC ETC
But I've been using my .308 (Savage 99) for 30+ years to kill hogs, deer, elk and assorted critters with a small Hornady 110Gr spire point Win brass Large rifle CCI primer and 48 Grains of IMR 4895 which according to my old manual develops 3200FPS with little to no walking after the shot, like others have said if you hit'em rigth it's over.
Any comments on this round would be welcomed, after all those years maybe I can learn what I've been doing wrong.......

Great post. Blargon does the sako have a factory barrel?

Yes, the 180g InterLock will be fine.



You really don�t need a premium bullet for the .308 Win when shooting 180g pills. That said, I disagree that premiums, including the TSX and TTSX in particular, are out of your price range.

Something of an aside, I don�t care for the TSX, although they have been very accurate in my rifles. The TTSX eliminated the concern I had about reliable expansion with the TSX bullets, and they have also been very accurate in my rifles. I�ve used TTSX and MRX on antelope and deer (.257 Roberts, .308 Win, and .300 Win Mag) and have been very happy with the results. My opinion is they are one of the best bullets available.

My issue, however, is not with your decision to not use premiums, but rather with your statement that they are beyond your price range. How much do you think an out-of-state elk or moose hunt is going to cost you when you figure in licenses, transportation, food, processing fees and any other expenses you will encounter? I live and hunt elk in Colorado and the pre-hunt vehicle maintenance, fuel, food, lodging, licenses and processing fees run many hundreds of dollars. I shoot North Fork, TTSX, MRX, Scirocco II, A-Frame and AccuBond in my hunting loads and the additional cost is a drop in the bucket compared to the other expenses.

I hear the cost argument a lot from people that smoke and do a lot of drinking. If you fall into either category it is a matter of priorities, not cost.

If you handload, you can shoot the best premiums you can find for less than many factory cup-and-core loads. Even if you don�t handload, the incremental cost of premiums just isn�t that great in most cases � often as little as $5 and rarely more than $25. I don�t suggest shooting premiums while plinking at the range, but it is possible to do the bulk of your practice with cheap cup-and-core bullets and zero for the premiums just before the hunt. That is exactly what I do as a handloader � for almost every premium load I have a practice load that closely (or at least closely enough) duplicates the trajectory of the premium. You can do that with factory ammo just as easily. As a handloader, I�ve often stated that the difference in costs between cup-and-cores and premiums, if totaling the shots fired over several years of filling elk and deer tags, wouldn�t be enough to buy me a cheap glass of wine with my dinner out.

Let�s say you decide to hunt elk in Colorado. Figure in $250-$450 for an out-of-state license (they are probably more these days), $500 in fuel, $250 in food, etc. Even without processing fees and lodging, trespass fees or guides or other miscellaneous expenses you are easily over $1,000. Now let�s say you are shooting factory ammo and decide to buy a box of $45 premium ammo instead of a box of the cheap stuff for $25. The difference of $20 is only 2% of the other costs and with many factory choices and handloads the difference would be much less. If that is going to make or break a hunt, you can�t afford the hunt to begin with.