Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Surplus 223 brass - Sierra 69 match - Hornady 60 gr vmax

Pretty satisfied my new AR carbine can shoot better than I can hold, but want to develope a load I can shoot a lot of and use on varmints.

First - how many of you use military brass? I bought 1000 rnds of top, polished military brass from Midway a while ago and want to try it. It has the crimp removed and appears to very nice brass. I don't want to sort brass... I know this may not be kosher, but I have enough sorting to do. If I don't sort, can I expect good accuracy? Or, should I just get a good quantity of commercial brass and let attrition take its toll?

Second - I would like to try the Sierra 69 gr match bullet. Any experience with it on varmints? Will it expand at all? My experience with other Sierra HP's is that the jacket material seems somewhat harder than other makes. The 6.5 85 gr HP's would blow 2" exit holes in groundhogs - not what I would consider explosive.

Finally - If the Sierra doesn't work out, I have some 60 gr vmax's I want to try. I hope to dupe the Black Hills load with better accuracy.

I don't intend to get on hands and knees looking for brass with this gun. That's why I hope the cheaper mil brass will work.

Any pet powders with these bullets?

Thanks in advance for your comments!

TM

I use mil surp brass, just trim to length, chamfer, load and shoot.

Shoots good enough for me to prarie dog shoot with.

Don't know about the 60 gr vmax but suspect that will be your best bullet.

Try H335.

Two words: brass catcher! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mine is easy to put on and doesn't get in my way. How else are you going to check out your brass to see if there are pressure signs? That's a pretty important aspect of working up a load for me. My brass catcher has a zipper on the bottom and when I leave it open it drops the fired round right beside the rifle so I can check it out. I can leave it zipped and blast away and not lose any of my brass or leave a mess for someone else to worry about. It's a must have for my AR shooting.

I recently put together some loads using milsurp brass, 25gr AA2230C powder, and Speer 70gr semi-spitzers. I just trimmed, chamferred, and full-length resized. These shot just below minute-of-angle at 150 yards. Rifle was a Bushmaster Dissipator upper, 16" 1/9 twist, flat-top with Weaver K4 scope.

Thanks - yeah I've seen catchers in use at the range. It would be good for checking cases with new loads. I wouldn't worry about losing cases while hunting, but at the range the catcher would be useful.

That's good enough for me. Sounds like you guys are doing ok without sortiing.

TM

That's good to hear! I have some H335 among others, so will try a few powders with the 60 vamx and see what hapens!

TM

Just stay away from any Federal 223 brass and you'll be ok. Also weigh the MT cases if you change brands. Heavier cases will show pressures quicker. Especially with the same given loads.

If you follow that and work up with the brand of surplus you have you should be just fine. I've shot some amazing groups at 600 yards with LC brass thats just been sorted a bit. In fact I"ve never used anything but Mil surp brass and its allowed me to have many medals and plaques on the walls.

Powders-- there is a ton of powders that will work. Anything with the burn rate around Varget, even including a number of cheap surplus powders. Only powder warning I"ll give is AA powders have really screwed me over the years with lot to lot severe changes(read no accuracy and 200 FPS changes and then back to normal)

69s, If a 2 inch exit hole isn't big to you then you probably need to go to a lighter more frangible bullet. I"ve shot a number of animals with the 69s-80s in Sierras and they have always worked till I hit a limb in front of a deer last fall. But that was my fault and not the bullet.

If the 60 doesn't work you can always go lighter still like the blitz type and drive em faster.

Best of luck, Jeff

Thanks for the info. I need to take a close look at the brass I have to see jjust what it is.

The 2" exits were with the 6.5 85 gr varmint bullet by Sierra. I've never tried the matchkings (69 gr) yet. Sierra's always impressed me with their accuracy, so I want to try this bullet. Plus, you can get them by the truck load. If they will reliable kill chucks and yotes I'll be pleased.

I have a boatload of fireformed Fed brass for my heavy Ruger. Never heard of any issues with it before. Whats the deal with the Fed cases?

TM

Federal cases in 223 ONLY(that I'm aware of) are extremely soft. I've turned in brass weight of once fired FC 223 rounds well in excess of 500 pounds. You just cannot make it safely work with any reliability. Of course the issue could have changed in the last year or so since I had to quit shooting but I've not heard of it if it has.

The only way I could ever think of using Federal was to get 1-2 loads out of it and it would have to be 1-2 grains less than a normal charge. Why go through the trouble when I can use LC brass and if I anneal it every 5th firing I've got some batches that will still win matches that have 20+ firings on them. Keep the neck non brittle and away ya go.

FWIW IIRC though Federal was to take over LC production by contract some time back. I can vouch that LC brass up to the year 2001 and 2002 is or was still ok brass. After those dates I'm out of the loop.

FWIW also- FC in 308 was less than ideal in the M14 BUT it was not an issue. IE anything other than LC brass and the M14 was tough on the case rims.

Best of luck, Jeff

Rost,

Fed Commercial brass and L.C. Govt. contract brass have a different spec.

LC 2005 Brass is pretty much the same as LC 89',90,91,92,etc.

Have gotten 6-10 loads out of LC brass without annealing.

For absolute consistency(Anal retentive exercise also known as Ballistic Masturbation) Lapua Brass when sorted by weight tightens up the margins.

Just never mind the sound of a wallet exploding in the background.....

Anymore these days, I stuff the mixed LC with 22.5gr of H335 and seat a Sierra Blitzking 55 on top, and go about my business whacking woodchucks with the M4.

The variations of internal volume on LC brass are
there, but have a small effect when compared to wind and angle in the field.

Never mind the loose nut behind the Buttpad. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I load the snot outta once fired LC brass.
Simply because I have unlimited access to it, and it ain't bad!!!!!

Agreed on the federal.

They could do so much better!

E4E

E4E- Great news on LC. Can continue to safely use.
Thanks, Jeff

Rost,

Mil. Spec must be met or the lot is rejected.

"Lake City" has become a standard.

That ain't a bad thing.

Just keep an eye and ear open to the woes expressedby fellow HP shooters, and practical 3 Gun weenies concerning year number lots.

As the Sword gets sharper in wartime, that which is rejected might not be any worse than in the past, but what IS accepted, gets better.

Have a couple boxes of Mk262Mod1 that I fully intend on scrutinizing. Before, during, and after firing.

The trend is tighter tolerences, more consistent accuracy/volume, and even better metallurgy.
(And you thought us Tactical grunt types were shallow!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Just wish the current propellant technology would hit the surplus/Canister market soon.

Evolution is a painfull thing.

Especially when you have Woodchucks that rate overkill
and little patience!!!!!!

Thank Goodness for the standard!!!!!

E4E

P.S.

Lubricity of the case cannot be comprimised.

It's a dichotomy that even Federal cannot ignore.

We are so spoiled!