Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only .45-70 vs. .45-90

i was just wonderin what the difference was between the .45-70 and the .45-90? is it just case length and powder i assume? what is the difference in velocity? and finally, do they make anything any more that is bigger (like a .45-120)? maybe my next project....

Do your homework, and grow up. Not a good choice for a "handle".,,,,,,Rod

I'm glad you told him that.

I'll say. That kind of language is not appreciated on this site or elsewhere where both men and women communicate!

I manufacture paper patch bullets and I own a 45-90 Sharps. I shoot bullets in the 500 to 520 grain weight mostly. 55 grains of Varget will give me 1825 fps from my 30" barrel with a 510 grain bullet. The case for the 45-90 is 2.4" long. 45-70 is 2.1". With the 45-70, 52 grains of varget and a 450 grain bullet is about all the case capacity that you will have and you will get 1750 or so fps. Both calibers are great but with the right powders, you will get the velocity in the 45-90 with 500 grain bullets as you will with 400-450 grain bullets in the 45-70. I am glad I went with the 45-90. By the way, heavy bullets 500+ grains with slow burning powders, I use 60 grains of R-22 and 535 grain paper patch bullets for a good lower velocity load and this will stack bullets on top of one another. Good shooting.

RC-You're apparently not making any friends with that handle, perhaps it's derived from your penchant for flinters
At any rate the case capacity with Black powder is what the nomenclature is all about, if you're not planning on shooting BP pretty much exclusively
getting into anything more capricious than a .45-70 is pretty much absurd
totally counterproductive as the biggest problem shooters of the vile white powder (smokeless) encounter is finding ways to fill the remainder of the case to prevent ringing the chamber or worse a detonation, which can and does occour, they do make at least one bulk type smkless Accurate arms
sells allegedly designed for applications like this, the name of which escapes me, but I shot a LB when it first came out and I was decidely underwhelmed with it's performance compared to real BP, I found to get any kind of decent SD's you had to tip the rifle up first so the charge was in the same place for every shot, if I failed to do that the results were dismal IMHO
and I find the use of various fillers problematic to say the least some will
end up becoming a single mass and jack up the pressures dangerously
some dramatically accelerate chamber erosion, each has it's adherents
some folks have been shooting smkless powders clearly not suited for the purpose for years without the rifle fragging in thier face and claim thats a
perfectly safe practice, IMHO they have just been lucky because a detonation is when the propellant starts burning on both ends at the same time and when the flame front meets KABOOM ! with C-4 type force
and there isn't a rifle made that will stand up to that, you'd be lucky to walk away missing a few fingers and and eye, fortunately a detonation is reletively rare as it takes certain precise chain of circumstances but every
time you pull the trigger you're rolling the dice, chamber ringing is anything but rare and many won't even be aware thier barrel is now ruined. bulged cases are the main clue.
if you're looking for a true RDS (retinal detatchment special) to shoot smokeless, use of the modern chamberings designed specifically for
smokeless, if you're going to join the ranks of the illuminati (enlightened ones)
then get one of the old classics and you'll be happy you did, as when you
learn to load BP you'll be amazed at the incredible perfomance you can achieve, safely. And the recoil from a healthy dose of Fg BP is considerably more gentle than any of the aforementioned RDS rounds or even some of the smaller modern rounds, the recoil implulse with black is more of a slower shove than the violent recoil you'll experience with the modern stuff. Any BP
round using more than 110 gr. is a waste time, as thats the most that can be consumed efficiently under ideal circumstances,so with .45-120's .50-140 etc you are dealing with filling the excess capacity just like with smokeless. If you feel the need to be able to stop a large Buick in it's tracks many of these old BP rounds will do the trick and if you don't want to deal with BP fouling while your shooting and or need some extra velocity duplexing with small amounts of certain smkless powders under the main BP charge will work wonders and basically do anything and more than any straight smkless round in these older calibers. BP shooting is also dirt cheap, you can cast really fine bullets of wheel wieghts and quality BP is about $7.00 to $8.00
a lb when you buy by the case, I use all the considerable $$$ I save buying new rifles and motorcycles.
As Steve Garbe wisely noted " smokless powder is just a passing fad with certain limited military applications "
Regards fredj

RC,

originally, the 45-90 had a different twist rate than the 45-70, and was designed to lauch lighter bullets faster than the 45-70...in two originals, the 45-70 would shoot 500 grainers much better and much further than a 45-90, albeit a rainbow trajectory. Each caliber had a somewhat different objective back in the day...modern repro's can give you whatever twist you want, but stick with the 45-70 and standard twist. If you want more bang and punishment, 45-120 will give you all you want, even in a heavy gun...If you want the look of a long case, I choose the 40-90 sharps straight...looks great and won't beat you into submission like a 45-120 will. In any event, reloading is the key with any of the these (and all) calibers.

"Cartridges of the World" discusses this and indicates the 45-90 using a 300 gr bullet in an express load around 2200 fps and designed for the 1886 Winchester so was not competing against the big single shots in the long range market. I agree that you can now probably get most any twist you want if a 45-90 is your choice.

But the twist rate in a Sharps has mostly been from the start 1:18 so light bullets would not be your type to use.