Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Remington Predator in 17 Fireball....Accuracy

I just bought a used predator in 17 Fireball.Worked up some loads with TAC and 20 grn Hornadys. These shoot real well. The factory ammo also shoots well.
My question or issue is with the random fliers. The only stock barrel contact is the pressure point forward of the swivel stud. The stock forearm is thin and easily moves when side pressure is applied.
The fliers do seem random example, two shots touching third shot inch high, fourth almost touch the first two. The fifth low and right out of group, next shot back in group touching.
The same session I shot another rifle that grouped a nice tight cluster so I don't think form was the cause of the fliers. Any suggestions?

I had to flog on a Rem VTR (with the triangle) last year.
Guy buys it. Shoots badly enough to miss a bad beaver at 30 yards.
So, while the gun is eye candy...
I tried it, and it was wildest at first, then it would "settle" as the rifle shot back in to the stock, and the forend pressure pad.
I then shimmed the action out of the stock, I had to use extra long screws and a pile of shims to finally get the barrel away from the stock, which turned out to be crooked.
Once floated, it shot. Straightening the stock and cutting away enough plastic to float the barrel with the action properly bedded was a real pain in the patootie.
In MOST cases, some forend pressure makes production rifles shoot well enough for MOST people, which is why you will see that pressure pad. It's a "safe bet."
If you want to learn for yourself, get some thin brass washers at the hardware store, as well as some slightly longer bolts that match your action screws pitch, and raise the action out of the stock. How far you have to go to float will tell you a lot about how much forend pressure you have -- sometimes it's a scary amount like it was on this particular VTR.
Take the "floated" mess to the range, shoot a couple groups, then put the old setup together and shoot a couple more. I'll bet there will be a difference. The VTR went from a 2 inch pattern gun to .6 for the only load I bothered to try.
If the float shoots worse than the factory setup, then you might need to carefully play with the forend tip for best results, a whole 'nother nightmare.

Temporarily free-floating a 700 to see how it shoots doesn't have to be that complicated. I use one or two of the plastic tabs from loaves of bread, and just put them between the receiver ring and the stock. The hole in the tab is usually big enough for the front action screw. Tighten the action screws down per usual and see how it shoots. If the fliers go away, then the forend bedding is the problem.

Probably 90% of 700's shoot better free-floated, except for some of the thin-barreled Ti's and Mountain Rifles.

Thanks for the advice JB and Dave. I'll look to temporarily float the barrel and see what happens.

Actually, John, I DID try bread tabs first. I forgot that I did. This particular rifle needed two big washers on both ends to climb out of the hole.
But yeah, K I S S.

Temporarily floating the barrel did indeed eliminate the erratic behavior. I guess I'll go to work free-floating the barrel.

Thanks

Different (i.e. stiffer) stock might be a good start.

Thought about it,but figured I'd start with bedding the action and floating the barrel. It's a cheap start,really just costs some time.

Good luck and keep us posted.
The problem I had was the action and bottom metal looked so NICE in the factory setup that I had to move everything else, and leave the action where it was.
Sometimes with a wood stock you can cheat and gouge and hack and sand and make it all better with colored epoxy. Not so true with synthetics.

The synthetic stocks on recent 700's have been pretty darn stiff, and I've had very fine luck when floating barrels, with groups at 1/2" or under. And that's with big game as well as varmint rifles.

Bread tabs, yeepers I learned something new today..thx

Dober

I like to use the cheap flexible advertising magnets that you can cut with a pair of scissors. Shape it to the exact fit, then cut a little hole for the action screw.

They shape and stick to the receiver and never fall off.

I have a predator in the 17 fireball and it shoots great. It has contact with the barrel the whole length of the stock. I haven't shot it in cold weather though and that seems to do a number on synthetic stocks that contact the barrel. I shoot 25gr Hornady HP's and V-Maxes with H4198 and it gives me 3/4 to 1/2" as long as the wind is down! T.S.

Farming: Just wanted to add how impressed I was with the Remington factory ammo in my 17 Fireball Rifle (its a Remington 700 VSF).
Back when the 17 Fireball was a new offering I shot factory ammo (one box) to break in the barrel and for initial sight in duty.
Then I finished off another 4 boxes of factory 20 grain ammo on Prairie Dogs, Ground Squirrels and a couple of Rock Chucks!
Anyway back in 2,007 I shot a total of 5 groups (all 5 shots at 100 yards) with the Remington factory ammo and those groups measured .533", .586", .579", 1.064", and .541"!
The over 1" group has a note in my loading log refering to "first shot flier fouler".
Those groups were shot mostly on different days and trips to the range - in only dead calm conditions.
I have a a Nikon 6.5x20 scope with fine cross hairs on my 17 Fireball.
And now I must fess up - to date I have only been able to fire ONE group with my handloads that has bested my best results with the Remington factory ammo!
I am shooting Berger 25 grain bullets in my handloads.
Best of luck to you and the 17 Fireball - I just wanted to add my observations of the noteworthy performance of the Remington factory ammo.
Have you tried the 25 grain factory ammo as yet - I have not.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Have to admit, the factory ammo with 20 grain bullets is what got me excited about the accuracy potential.

Bread clips and magnets....Great tips.

Thanks

Here is a copy of something I posted shortly after I acquired a rem model 7 predator.

........I love small calibers and have been shooting the seventeens for years. Back when virgin valley firearms was in business I had them make barrels for my contenders in 17 ackley hornet, and 17 mach IV. Both had 22�� barrels that were light, fast and accurate. Two drawbacks,--single shot and with the original contender you have to open the action if you let the hammer down on an unfired round before you could re-cock the trigger.
For the last couple of years I’ve had the craving for a repeater in 17 mach IV. I have my share of heavy barreled varmint rifles and recently I have been doing much more game calling and “walking varminting��. Most of my shots are 100 yds. and under. I wanted a light rifle that would have a 22 “ barrel and a synthetic stock and a repeater. I would mount a 2 x 7 up to a 3 x 9 scope. . To my mind the mach IV with a 20 gr. bullet at 3800 to 4000 fps is a great varmint round.
Remington must have been reading my mind because they came out with their model 7 predator in 17 fireball. I couldn’t resist.
I have 17 fireball dies and brass on order, but I do not have them in my possession yet. However, I do have 17 mach IV brass, dies and a number of loaded rounds using 25 gr. Hornady hollow points over 15.8 and 15.9 grains of H-4198. Being the impatient type, couldn’t wait to shoot the rifle and do some load testing. I mounted a scope and went to the range. I used some of these loaded rounds to zero the scope and to fireform some brass in the 17 fireballs’ chamber. My first outing was somewhat disappointing. Velocity was sup-par and groups were over an inch.
Needless to say, I was bummed. I went home and took the rifle out of the stock and worked on the stock to free float the barrel. I also dug out some of my old Small Caliber News mags. I had forgotten about using Reloader 10x, so I loaded up some 18 gr. Bergers ,some 20 gr. V-maxes and some 25 gr hornady hollowpoints, all over several different load densities of reloader 10x.
Loads ranged from 17 grains to 18.3 grains. One fellow reported loading 19 grains, but I wanted to be conservative to start with. I fired a total of 37 rounds, 4 shots to zero and then fired 11 three shot groups. I cleaned the barrel before this second outing. I figured the 4 shots I took to zero the scope would sufficiently foul the barrel. I did not clean between the first and eleventh group.

Observations:
Although I am a blue steel and wood guy, I like the camo barrel and synthetic stock on this little rifle. The new x-mark pro trigger breaks crisply at 3.5 lbs. After free floating the barrel, groups were tighter and more consistant.
+/ 3950 fps out of a 22 inch barrel and no pressure signs, and room to spare in the case. A velocity over 4000 fps should be attainable without pressure signs.
These groups were shot in a cross wind 10 mph+ At 100 yds. and under, wind shouldn’t be a factor unless you’re shooting in a hurricane.
The 18 and 20 gr bullets shot the better groups
The bullets were loaded to the same seating depth, and the 18 gr bergers’ at 1.720 oal shot just as good if not better than the 20 gr. V-maxes’ (the longest bullet overall) at 1.800 oal.
The first group (25 gr hdy h.p., 17 gr rl-10x) and last group were both sub inch. Chances are I can get off more rounds in a day than I’ll shoot before accuracy is degraded.

The following pix are of the model 7 predator and the 11 different groups using reloader 10-x.
GWB






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and here are results of a short calling session using the 17 fireball
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Removed the pressure point. She seems to enjoy it better that way. It still takes a couple shots to settle in,but much better.

Lookin' good! I am so tempted to buy one of those Fireball Predators.

I have one in 243, mine is hunting only so i use shooting stix so my only concern is hitting a coyote. But its pretty accurate on bench to.