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Swampy and Larry:
Please let me handle this!


Ingwe, DD and gnoahhh, What is the matter with you!!! Didn't your moms teach you it is WRONG to pick on the "special", slow kids???!!!! STOP IT RIGHT NOW!!!!!

S&L - that should take care of the problem.


Johnny $

Yes'm.

Johnny $, I thought "special" implied in need of attention? Just trying to do my civic duty ya know.

I know some special folk need TLC, but darn it, some of them require reinforcement with a hickory stick or something similar. Something to do with that Pavlov fella I hear.

Now don't give this away but I'm trying to set up a match to settle this debate. On one lane there's gonna be a SUX 700 ML and a parade of pimps. On the other I'm guessing a .56 Perry w/a two piece 1300 grain Hindenburg over 200 grains of 1-1/2 FG Swiss. Older than dirt, like the driver. Ought to be a fair match, but I gotta say I hope it's windy. 40 rods, string measure.



If'n you don't think this is fair I could probably work in an 800 grain .50 caliber shooter. Maybe. Depends on where mostly.

Dan, that is one cool rifle. Is that a false muzzle utilizing a cross patch that I'm looking at? I'd love to see one of those at work at a 40 rod match. It would be like going back 120 years.

Dan,
That is really a interesting reference. Some of my graduate studies were done on Pavlov's theory. We were trying to find the lowest lifeforms that could be conditioned into determinal behavior with risk/reward "training". In my last year we were working with night crawlers. We used a maze that was just a "T" box with rich humus in one arm of the T and a nasty electric shock in the other. Believe it or not, the night crawlers could be conditioned into turning to the rewards side with the ringing of a buzzer. Anyway the smart ones could be taught - the dumb ones became catfish bait. Swampy and Larry would probably have been sleeping with the fishes...

I really wouldn't want to shoot against that Perry rifle with anything! But I would certainly like to watch you shoot it.


Johnny $

Whatever it is, the village dingleberry will weigh-in directly, with an assertion that he not only has a brace of 'em, but is also reigning world champeen at whatever discipline is involved. Yep.

That is a match worth the air fare to go watch!

Sharps, yep, that's a cross strip false muzzle. The Perry uses one as well. The holes in the face of the muzzle are for the alignment pins. The FM you're looking at is on the .50.

Johnny $, one of my long time friends took home a PHD in psychology after a thesis on operant conditioning. I think that has something to do with Pavlov but mostly that stuff is over my head. Not even sure I spelled it right. Anyway, he's got more psych issues than Jimma's got peanuts. Me, I'm just....disturbed. Comfy with that.

Dube, I don't think so. I know some of them champions personally. They tend to flock around Friendship and more recently, Cody, WY. My .40 got abused by one of 'em this year at the NRC match by a big .50, fair and square. 32.36" for 20 shots @ 200 yards. That's string measure. In a 15-20 mph variable wind. That's a POI average of just over 1.6" from point of aim. Time rules. Them boys play for keeps.

To be clear, neither of the guns above belong to me, but the owners are always looking for an easy mark and one of 'em lives here in Florida. The other is up in Ohio. My own are just a light .50 (16#)and the .40(19#) The .40 do OK and I have some work underway on the .50, vintage 1880 w/scope. It does OK too. I'm fair certain either would make a 700ML SUX blush in public exhibition.

I don't want no old junk.

Dan, I have no doubts. It is amazing what those guys could do all those years ago. Makes me want to break out Roberts book again.

Tell me, with more modern metallurgy and being able to machine to closer tolerances do the newer rifles shade the old ones by much, if any, given comparable sighting equipment?

Tough question that. My gut says it's an even race. Most of these things, given good handling, will shoot quite well. Difference in the rifles is probably small, and the necessity to be on top of the game is large. Especially when the wind blows. Record scores run in the single digit range for 20 shot strings as I recall, many of them very, very old.

New Gun, 100 yards shot by builder





Shot by me in absurd wind (20 mph +), 200 yards:

Dang! I really hope I can kill a deer with my 700ML this year.....

Wait a minute...


You mean you are supposed to shoot at that little part in the middle...????


I been doin' this ALL wrong....


Let me get back to you guys on this....

I know. Here's the righteous path for you. .62 caliber round ball gun, 5 shots @ 100 yards. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=17008.0



Thinkin' there might be enough interest in this stuff for a separate thread, what ya think? RB/Picket/Slug Rifles?

Someone will doubtless quickly infest it with his "unique" brand of participation.

Used to shoot some with a guy who collected Schuetzen rifles. Been a long time since I've seen him or any of his rifles, but recall that some were really beautiful and accurate specimens.

Once got him riled up, when I told him about an original Marlin-Ballard I'd seen. He demanded that I give him the guy's phone number. Told him it wouldn't do any good, because the guy had been offered thousands for it and wouldn't budge. To this day my bud still thinks I was just pullin' his leg about actually having seen one. ;O)

Something along these lines?



Or maybe more like this?

Or maybe like one of these?

Here's that old junker Perry rifle. It has 18 lands and grooves, radius profile w/no sharp edges. Built somewhere back in the late 1800's, the original micro-groove rifling? My recollection is that it weighs 47#.

Not sure this is an original Billinghurst, but at the least a very sweet copy. The scope was built just a few years back as I understand it, but the info is a little sketchy in my memory circuits.

Another...this one a replica of a Warner rifle.