Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 450/400 Express vs 45-70

Will the 45-70 load up just as fast with a 400gr.bullet in a ruger#1 as the ruger 450/400 express 400gr. factory Hornady loads?

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load_1.asp
see link...look at the bottom load of H4198...2108 fps
WOW..so whats so special about a 450/400 Boddington Elephant special#1Ruger..LOL?
http://www.hornady.com/store/450-400-Nitro-Express-3-400-gr-DGS/

So a couple of hot handloads pushing +49k psi... makes it equal to a factory load running lower pressure for safeties sake if used in older guns?...

Boddingtons #1 elephant is a 450ne not a 450/400 which packs alot more punch than a 45/70. Also the 450/400 is a 40 cal so it has a much better sd than a 400 grn 45 cal bullet. I know all the big 5 has been taken with the 45/70 but i think id stick with a more traditonal dg round

Well said.

The CB 450-400 3" No. 1 was named "The Buffalo." A 400 grain 0.410" bullet at 2050 fps seems about right for a buff, as far as I can tell. Although the No. 1 in that chambering will do about 2400 fps with the right dose of H 4841, almost elephant territory, because of penetration of that pencil thin high SD heavy-for-caliber bullet.

The only fly I see on the 450 NE 3" in the No. 1 CB series is the 7.5 lb weight, unscoped. OTW, a great alternative for the traditional Africa bound big game hunter.

Nailed it, fishdog.

When are the 45/70 guys going to quit trying to make it something it isn't? It is an all time great and useful cartridge for sure, and I have had a couple. BUT it is not the equal of the true big game / DGR african proven rounds. It just isn't. Love it and use it for what it is and be happy.

Having had both the Ruger #1 in 450/400 3" NE and a #1 in 45-70 I'd take the 450/400 anyday because it handled much better--it didn't have the sewer pipe barrel contour of the other #1 Tropicals so it's weight was nicely balanced unlike the stubby 45-70 with its short, fat barrel.

As for the two cartridges, the 450/400 3" NE is just purring along with a 400gr bullet at 2000fps: no excess pressure, tolerable recoil, long brass life. You can load it up alot hotter, into 416 Rigby territory, but what's the point?

If Your thinkin' Africa, think 450-400 NE and dont look back.

Gunner

I just noticed the factory round speed and had no idea,it looks like a nice round,figured you guys would know the scoop..
see the link below and checkout the speed given
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239114038

Looks like the new 416ruger beats 'em both in spades..LOL
http://www.ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeAlaskan/models.html

The 416 Ruger may beat it, but the 450/400 has cool factor!

Kennesaw,

In answer to your question, no.

The .450/.400 is still loaded to mild "Cordite" pressures, but has enough case capacity to do a lot more. A few months ago I loaded a Ruger No. 1 to modern pressures and got an easy 2350 fps with a 400-grain bullet. The .450/.400's bullets also have considerably higher sectional density, weight for weight, which is still important in solid bullets.

I've never owned a 450/400 but have a few #1s in .45-70, plus a #3 that my son owned for which I developed handloads. All 4 would shoot a 500gr Hornady at 2000 fps+ at less that 64,000 psi using Remington brass. I'll not give the data here, except to say that the chief ballistics scientist at a major powder co. was VERY surprised when he tested the load for me, and his first response (over the phone) was "You have just reinvented the .458 Winchester Magnum".

That was with the "short" 22" factory barrels. The test facility got 2100 fps from their 24"test barrel.

So, yeah, 2350 fps is easy for a 400gr. Try the 450gr Swift AF, and see what you get! Mine has been long-throated for the past 12 years and thinks it's a .458 Lott with a 22" barrel!

Don't knock it, if ya don't know... And that last comment isn't for John but for anyone else reading this.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

the load that regulates in my .450/.400 3 1/4 in double clocks 2175 with a 400 grain Woodleigh....pressure is very low.

Will do -

of course, "use" is a concept few guns in fire hands ever get to endure; its what sets them apart from fire keyboards.

This is what a used gun looks like -