Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Bullets for Long Range Hunting

HELLO
<br>
<br>I do believe I mentioned that the Sierra MKs have worked fine for "my friends and I" at short range and at extreme longrange.
<br>
<br>I have no complaint against the Sierra MKs I have ever used on game. They have expanded well and kill much better then you seem to think they can. They also perform better then some of the so called hunting bullets for "us."
<br>
<br>I'm not sure if you have ever used them or not because you keep refering back to something you read 30 years ago or that Sierra doesn't recommend them.
<br>
<br>Have you had a bad experiance with the bullet or have you not used them for hunting at all? You yourself just said how well they shoot for you.
<br>
<br>As I stated before, if you have never used them, you would NOT know what they will do at any range, would you?
<br>
<br>My main Calibers at present for LR hunting are the 338/416 Rigby Imp using the 338--300 Gr MK and the 220 Gr MK in the Big 30s such as 30/378 Weatherby. The 6.5/300 Weatherby does quite well with the 142 Gr Mk also as does the 7/300 Weatherby using the 168 Gr MK.
<br>
<br>All these MKs work extremely well on game at any range "I" have ever killed them at.
<br>
<br>I do have MANY longrange friends that use NOTHING but Sierra MKs and we all can't be wrong now can we ?
<br>
<br>So, if you haven't tried them could you really know how they perform? If you have had a bad experiance using them, Please tell us about it.
<br>
<br>We as experianced LR hunters HIGHLY recommend the Sierra MK for our style of hunting and they also work for us in our carry guns when we shoot at short range.
<br>
<br>If "you" can't accept that, I can't help it, it's a fact. Match Kings work.
<br>
<br>Later
<br>Darryl

No, Darryl. I've never used one. I just can't help but note that the folks that make them don't recommend them . You keep going back to how well they work under strickly controlled conditions. You don't answer my points.
<br> What do I have to point out now ? I've pointed out how they perform. Reported by the folks that make them.
<br> I don't hear anything about shooting through animals except at nice clear, broadside shots. Shots where I've seen .22 centerfires, with varmit bullets, work fine. Can your MatchKings shoot through shoulders on elk class stuff ? Can they shoot through an elk class critter from shoulder to hip ?
<br> How come you guys don't take bad angle shots ? Have you found that your MatchKings don't work that way ?
<br> I'll tell you what my problem is. I dislike hearing about how great something is, when even the folks that make them say they aren't. E

Hello
<br>
<br>That's exactly what I'm talking about. You guys who have never used them question their ability and have Not used them at all. How would you EVER know how good or bad they are.
<br>You can't seem to believe someone or several people who have had fantastic results with the MK and that's a pity.
<br>
<br>Controlled situations??? FYI--I have shot deer lengthwise on several occasions and the bullet went in the chest and exited out his rear end.
<br>
<br>On elk, we have killed many that went through one or both shoulders and exited out the far side. We only recovered two bullets out of 20 elk and those were on the far side of the animal just under the skin AFTER it went through the opposit shoulder.
<br>At 2100 yards the 300 gr 338 bullet went in the right side of the elk just behind the right shoulder and exited through the far left shoulder completely. The elk was standing on an angle.
<br>
<br>That is bullet stability and extreme killing ability regardless of what you think.
<br>
<br>We have made angle shots on large elk and the bullet performed better then most hunting bullets would have.
<br>
<br>Like I said, if you haven't used them AT ALL, how can you even reply in a negative OR Positive way?
<br>All you state is that Sierra don't recommend them.
<br>Please do me a favor and don't use them then.
<br>
<br> There are many who are and getting fine results from them and they are both short or longrange hunters.
<br>
<br>I'm simply pointing out facts here of many years of hunting in all ways.
<br>Until one uses them, they will NEVER know will, they?
<br>
<br>Darryl
<br>

Oh, thank you Darryl. All I have to do is go to the 300 gr., .338 MatchKing in your .338 wildcat, and I will get the performance I've been getting with the 160 gr. 7 mm Partition.
<br> That's what I suspected.
<br> I want to thank you for your time. I'm impressed with what you guys do. 2000 yds. you say ? Wow ! E

Ya know this is the kind of stuff that makes me turn inside out.... here we have a guy who is just trying to share knowledge and inform and he gets in return sarcasm....
<br>
<br>UNFREAKINBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!

Your "very" confused on that statement. It's not "JUST" the 300 Gr 338 Mk that will do it.
<br>
<br>Actually, the 200 Gr Sierra Matchking in the 30/378 and the 168 Gr in the 7/300 Weatherby did the same thing at yardages from 1150 yards to 1360 Yards we have made kills on also. We like the 338--300 gr for yardages out past 1400 yards.
<br>
<br> One frontal shot I recall on an elk, with the 168 Gr in a 7/300 Weatherby at 1150 yards went in at the juncture of the neck and the chest and exited out part way back in the rib cage on the opposit side. The elk was standing with a slight angle toward us.
<br>
<br>Both Of the above mentioned Mks did inneed penitrate clear through.
<br>The 200 Gr I remember on one Bull went through BOTH shoulders at 1360 Yards.
<br>
<br>Yes, even the smaller bullets (168 Gr and 200 Gr) will do what your partitions are capable of, only at a MUCH further range then your 5 or 6 hundred yards you have experiance with. I believe you mentioned that range didn't you?
<br>I believe I said at the time, our shots are not That "Close" unless we are hunting short range and with carry guns.
<br>
<br>Again I will make this statement,
<br>Your Partitions Would "NEVER" do to game what the MK does to it "at the ranges we shoot". Reason being, they don't have the BC to retain the speed and energy that far or retain their accuracy. That's exactly why we use the Sierra MK.
<br> Are you still Unclear on that? I can give more comparisons if you really want to hear it. I'm 62 years old, have been shooting a long time and have seen what the differences are. I didn't just come on the scene.
<br>
<br>To sum this up a bit further, Maybe you should continue to use your partitions and stiick to shots no further then 500 or 600 hundred yards (that your used to) and my LR friends and I will continue to use the Sierra Match Kings and both of us will be happy?
<br>Your never going to use MKs and I will NEVER use Partitions after I saw the results of bullet flight down range and the poor accuracy they gave in excess of 800 yards. Maybe 500 or 600 they are fine for you but, for me, I want the MKs performance and "Accuracy."
<br>
<br>The BIG difference here is, I've tried the Partitions and they are not VERY accurate at the ranges we shoot. You admited you have not tried the Sierra MK. I guess that says something.
<br>
<br>I'll give you this as sort of a compremise, for the hunter wanting to make short shots, the partition OR the MK will work just fine. Anything past 500 yards stick to the MOST accuracy you can and try the Sierra MK. It will do the job on deer and elk size animals.
<br>
<br>Thanks for your input.
<br>Darryl

Thank you for the reply WYO
<br>
<br>I was thinking and wondering that also.
<br>
<br>Darryl

Think I'll jump in here. I have found that the matchkings in .243 in the 4-600 yd range for praire dogs work much better than the Sierra varmiteers that they offer. I have no doubt that they would work better than most hunting bullets at those ranges. I realize this 4-600 yd is not long range by the long range shooters. But what most shooter don't know and the LR shooters haven't stated is that out about 500 yards, a good bullet goes to sleep as some call it. It really doesn't settle down until then. After that. it is almost perfectly stabilized and will continue in flight with very little if any devaition except shedding velocity. A lot of the premium hunting bullets just never get there. However, there are better bullets for short range hunting. One particular is the Sierra Round Nose. A lot of hunters have forgotten about these bullets or never used them . The same thing, They never used them, but complain they are not accurate. They will indeed do everything a BT will do out to 300 yds. I'm not a proponent of using premium bullets. I don't travel a long ways for my hunt, and I hunt longer and can pass up shots if I need to. But the bullets I use, kill just as effectively as any premium bullets I have heard about. I don't buy the arguement that premiums give you an edge against a bad angle. Hell, don't take the shot if it's bad. I don't care if you have $10,000 wrapped up in the hunt, if it ain't right don't take it. I have used Sierra bullets exclusively for over 30 years. If it ain't broke , no need to fix it. But I think anyone that thinks one bullet can do it all is missing the boat, and anyone that flat out says a certain bullet won't do a job is missing the boat also. I just don't like a grapfruit size exit hole becasue there is too much blood shot meat around it. Certainly if you hit a shoulder on the far side, I imagine you pretty much would have to throw it away if you had that size exit hole.
<br>
<br>I wouldn't reccomend Matchkings or any BT in dense timer with 15 yard shots, nor would I reccomend round nose bullets in open country past 250 yds.
<br>
<br>BTW. I used Matchkings for about 15 years in competition, for 600 yds. However, for 200-300 yds, I used the cheapest bullet I could find, as long as they would shoot in the 10 or X ring. Kinda the same for hunting, dead is dead whether you shoot them with a 25 cent bullet or a $2 one.

Very good thought Saddlesore.
<br>
<br>As you have implied, to each is own as to the pick of bullets for the application. I agree 100%
<br>
<br>If you ever get back to PA, give me a call.
<br>
<br>Darryl

Eremicus, you know I was with you right up until your last post. I respect your opinions on most things, but you are being awfully bull headed on this bullet debate. These guys as a rule aren't tooling through the hills will 8-9 pound rifles, sneaking, stalking, running and gunning. From what I gather most of the time they spend a lot of time glassing from specific places and are shooting highly specialised rifles that weigh 20 lbs or more. At the long distances they can shoot, they have the luxury of picking and choosing their shots. Because of this they are somewhat limited to where and how they can hunt. If they can see it, and can get set up, I'm pretty sure they can catch it. It's not at all like the type of hunting you do, therefore their choice of bullet and style of hunting negates the majority of your argument. Just for the record I don't shoot out past 400 yards as a rule. I spend most of my day on the move and I'm rarely in one spot long enough to justify toting a 30 pound rifle. When I'm hunting for antlers I take whatever shot is presented if I think it will kill what I'm after. That means broadside, stem to stern or vise versa, crossways...whatever. That probably doesn't rest well with some folks, but I sleep at night just fine. When I hunt for meat I'm far more selective in where that bullet goes. Bottom line when I'm after antlers I want a bullet that will pretty much take care of any situation I'm presented that will kill the deer I'm after. Since my limitation are 400yds or less a Nosler Partition works exceptionally well for me, I also very much like what I've seen the Barnes X do. However if I were only hunting in a long range situation with highly specialised equipment you can bet I'd be giving those Match Kings a try. In other words "when in Rome, do as the Romans do."

Eremicus:
<br>
<br>Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I usually respect yours, but in this case you are telling someone how their bullets shouldn't perform when they are saying that on multiple occasions in actual hunting situations at widely varying distances they have performed more than adequately and they have some positive qualities associated with MKs that other brands or types of bullets don't have. Unless you believe they are flat out fibbing, which I absolutely don't(and what would they have to gain) then what more proof can you reasonably expect? You are taking the word of a ballistician at Sierra above actual results. Doesn't make sense.
<br>
<br>I happen to have a few thousand 168 gr .308 MKs and some 200s laying about and I am going to go out and do my best to shoot a feral hog with one in either a .308 or a .30-06, but unless it is big one, recovery is unlikely, but I will report results if I can get a hog to cooperate.
<br>
<br>PS: I hate to repeat second hand information but I have asked several very competent deer hunting friends of mine if they have ever used a MK to shoot a deer with over the years, and they all said yes and they all said it stoned the animal. Now that is only about 3 people as I recall, but I know these guys and know they had no reason not to tell it exactly like it happened. I believe them and I believe the LR hunters about their performance. The idea that Mks are the absolute best choice under all circumstances at all ranges is ludicrous, but that is not what they are saying. Nor is any other bullet.

IIFID.....Very well said.............................

Somebody (I don't recall who) asked why the LR hunters shoot animals standing broad side. To me, it is very logical to shoot big game animals as they are "standing" broad side. Quite simply, I offers the largest target area.
<br>
<br>I am not a LR hunter compared to Darryl, Boyd, WY and others that kill large game at ranges most wouldn't or couldn't even fathom. My abilities are limited to 650 yards on whitetail deer. I ALWAYS wait for the "Standin Still" broadside shot for the simple reason it offers the largest area. I do "try" to put the bullet right behind the shoulder, giving me a double lung shot. In the past 3 years all of my kills on deer (at what I consider long range) have been double lung shots. Every single bullet (at long range) has exited. I use 180gr ballistic tips out of a 300 win mag.
<br>
<br>On another note I use 52gr berger bullets out of my 22 CHeetah for killing woodchucks. It is true that one time the bullet will "pencil hole" and another time it will EXPLODE but, it should be added that in every case the woodchuck died. I have had rather short shots (out to 200 yards) where that bullet went in and didn't exit at all, resulting in instant death to the woodchuck.
<br>
<br>Would I use that bullet for deer? Damned straight I would. Hit in the neck, the deer is going to drop like a rock. Although I don't generally go for a neck shot on deer with my 300 win mag I wouldn't hesitate using the 22 caliber. The neck of a deer is a larger target then the entire body of a woodchuck. With my scope set at 24X the neck of a deer sure looks like a HUGE target area.
<br>
<br>Don
<br>

Don Knows, while I know what you are saying I would think twice about that neck shot. While the neck is bigger than a chuck the vertabrae isn't. If you miss the bone, then have fun tracking. I did just that this year with a Ballistic Tip (which I have a very low opinion of.) I hit the deer right smack dab in the neck from about 150 yards. It flatten the deer for about 10 seconds then it got up and ran away. It took a while but I caught up with it and finished the job. Upon skinning I discovered my shot was right on the money but the 165 BT out of my 30.06 did not penetrate the bone. It basically blew up a baseball sized whole upon entry and flew to pieces on the neck bone. Must of hurt like he!!, and I felt bad the deer had to suffer. I shot another deer a while back that was running straight away at a steep up hill angle. The 165 BT caught him right along the left side of his back bone just ahead of the hip. It traveled about 8" making a huge mess, but it did not break any bone. The bullet just fragmented into nothing. It hurt the deer real bad and it was a short trip to find and finish him off. However an educated guess says that if I had been using a Partition that buck would of dropped on the first shot. I tried those friggin BT's for two years, a mistake I won't repeat. Partitions and X's for me thanks. Now if I ever get this LR stuff figgered out I may give those MK a try.

Sky. dead right. Too high in the neck and you nip a high spine on the vertebrae. Deer goes down like a rock, jumps up like a rabbit and usaully is never seen again. Too low and you clip the esophagus, resulting in a deer that usaully gets away and slowly dies of starvation and gangrene.I doubt if a 22 cal/60 gr bullet at 3000fps + would even penetarte to the spine unless it sheds a lot of velocity pretty quick. Especially when I have seen 130-140 gr BT's blow up at the same speeds without reaching vitals.

I could not in good faith trade projectile integrity,for solely a BC increase. That because I've nuked too many "lesser" bullets,because I favor cartridges that have some "giddyup",to them. Before the question is asked,yes I've had pards nuke the SMK's too,out of Hot30's at "close-ish" distances,as Eremicus related some while ago and has been printed prior. They immediately abandoned them,as one naturally would. I'm not bad-mouthing anyone's choice in bullets,but relating I'd opt differently.
<br>
<br>Were my intent to bust critters from extreme distance,I'd quit polishing turds and have the tool for the job. The 50BMG. It can be made extremely accurate,naturally has oodles of energy and projectiles with both great integrity and BC's over 1.00 are readily available.
<br>
<br>That doubly so,consideing the rifles mentioned are not configured in typical Hunting rifle guise. That due to barrel length,overall weight,etc.
<br>
<br>There is zero doubt,if I lived DownSouth,I'd have a McMillan 50. If only as a Play Toy.....................
<br>
<br>

I find the neck shot to be the worst crippler of game ever. If you hit the spine it will drop like a bag of potatoes. If you hit too high, you do nothing but give a nasty wound that the animal will die of infection from. If you hit too low and don't get one of the arteries, you give it another wound it will die slowly and painfully from.
<br>
<br>The hunters I know who use the neck shot say they use it to reduce damaged meat. My advice to them is a lung shot. How much meat is on a rib? Is it worth crippling an animal to save a pound or two of meat. Besides, are they going to starve if they don't get that extra 2 pounds of meat?
<br>
<br>A guy I work with shot a moose a few years back in the neck. Instant drop. While he was digging out his camera, the moose jumped up and ran off. He trailed it for over 2 miles but never found it. I guess he was worried about only having 700 pounds of meat instead of 702lbs. Over the years, he has lost several other animals because of the neck shot. Of course, he claims it is the only shot to take and will not change. Go figure.
<br>
<br>I prefer to put my animal down as quickly as possible with the highest percentage shot. I don't shoot animals in the neck or in the butt because, frankly, I'm not starving and don't need the meat that bad. I still shoot my 5 or 6 animals every year just fine using a shoulder or lung shot. My kids aren't starving yet.

Add to that the "shoot them in the head guys". I have seen more than one deer with its jaw blown off because some idiot thought he could head shoot a deer at 300 yards. Doesn't give any room for error. But I guess some guys are perfect.

Yes. I am being bull headed about this. I never said they don't work at all. I just take exception to them being the perfect game bullet at any range.
<br> It is not some opinion of some tech rep vs. all these LR experts. It is Sierra's company policy to specifically recommend these bullets not be used on big game. They get feedback from far more users than these guys.
<br> Again, these bullets don't see real expansion unless the impact velocities are 2300-2400 fps. They also have a bad habit of tiping over due to the fact that most of their weight is in the butt of the bullet. This is what the Sierra tech rep told me was the feedback they got from many users of this bullet, etc.
<br> Contrast this to the fact that the Nosler Partition has been used all over the world for many years. It is the standard by which all premium bullets are judged.
<br> Now these come along and tout the GameKing as "the near perfect game bullet at any range."
<br> Sure. And tommorow the sun shall rise in the west. E
<br>

Saddle,
<br>
<br>I should have added to my above post as to velocity. My bad, sorry.
<br>
<br>I push a 52gr berger bullet at 4280 FPS. It does shoot rather flat to 660 yards. I have killed deer with it to 400 yards, I have yet to have one get up and go anywhere. They just plain drop. I will add, neck shots, double lung shots, and even gut shots, they just plain drop. I have yet to try a "Texas Heart Shot".
<br>
<br>
<br>Sky,
<br>
<br>I am not calling you a liar but you are the only person I have ever heard of that had BT blow up on a neck shot on a deer. I have hit deer, broadside, at 420 yards, in the spine, it broke the deer in 2 and the exit hole was about 2 1/2" in diameter. What happened to you, I would consider a "fluke". I have killed a lot of deer using the 180gr ballistic tips and I have never lost a deer using them. The furthest any deer has ever gone on me using that bullet is 30 yards, most drop on the spot. I use BT's because they have a high BC and just plain shoot better then "most" hunting bullets out there. Seems most hunters either love em or hate em, I love em.
<br>
<br>Have a good one all,
<br>
<br>Don
<br>
<br>