Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Discussion of Bird Dog Breeds

You can believe what you want but it is just nonsense that a GSP is as good or better then a retriever at duck hunting and retrieving. I am wondering just how many Surf Scoters and Eiders you have shot and had retrieved by your or anyone elses GSP. I have seen more then enough hunt test. Sorry that ain't sea duck hunting. Like I said over and over again GSP's are good all around bird dogs.

yeah... but ya gotta list all of the info on the rifle and the load...

I've had the pleasure to hunt behind a griffon a few times. Belongs to a buddy of mine's parents...why they have it, I have no idea as they are not realyl hunters. His father is grooming their farm for wild quail and are starting to see them after a few years but I am pretty sure this was a result of getting the dog and not exactly a combined effort. As a matter of fact my buddies mom shows the dog in best of breed shows or whatever beauty contests.

The dog has not had a day of field training, and not much obedience training but was a very sharp natural. She would range a little but mostly from puppy energy and lack of obedience. She has a great nose and a natural point and will hold all day. If they would get that dog just a tiny bit of training it would be some hunting dog. Great family dog for sure. Sweet as pie.

I'm trying to decide between a GSP and drathaar. Appreciate the reading. What is it about the drathaar that is not family oriented?

i have hunted behind a good many drahthaars, and there are several in (owned by) my extended family...
they tend to be snippy with strangers and children, and can be downright hostile...

i'm sure that there are exceptions, and a pair owned by my SIL's grand dad are among the notable exceptions... but even he does not allow young children around them without close supervision...

if i didn't have a 2 yr old grandson who loves dogs,and if they weren't such high dollar acquisitions (~$1100 here), i could see myself with a drahthaar...

but for the same money there are usually W.P.G.s available. i'd by one of them in a minute if i wasn't tighter than bark on a tree... ...

Thanks for the info on the Drathaar. I had not done much reading on their personalities I guess... must have been focused on reading about their hunting prowess. Their is a custom rifle builder named Roger Green that has some beautiful Drathaars I was recently drooling over but maybe I need to lead toward the GSP as children are yet in my future. A silver or charcoal pointing lab would also be on my short list.

a lot of drahthaar owners would probably call foul on what i said, and there are a lot of families that successfully raise drahthaars...

best advice i can give would be to cultivate an acquaintance with several guys who hunt them and;

A] get their opinion on the breed.

B] see if you can't arrange to hunt over the breed a few times.

the foundation stock for the drahthaar includes the stichelhaar... maybe some research into that breed would be enlightening, but sift what you find with a grain of salt...

here's one link that discusses the stichelhaar... stichelhaar

it describes the breed as "laid back", somewhat like a griffon. in fact, the stichelhaar and the griffon, despite their similarities, are not related...

the comments posted at the bottom of the stichelhaar link include some that decry the reputation of the drahthaar as aggressive, or "mansharp".
which simply emphasizes that aspect of their reputation...

I am acquainted with a couple of drahthaar breeders, and they select stock with an eye towards the breeds reputation and it's behavioral characteristics...
when the breed was formed though, all crosses were looked at only with the goal of hunting performance... and they certainly achieved that...

but the reputation for over aggressiveness still haunts them...

English Setters, English Pointers, GSPs, Labs, English Springers. Proven performers from which good stock is readily available is ones best bet for success.

Been awhile since Wirehaird Griffons, Drahthaars or any of the multipurpose European breeds have beat them in the trials that the majority of the best bird dogs can trace their ancestry too.

Of course if you are looking for a Dog to track down your Deer/Hog and come back with the flag in his mouth they may be an option, but I thought the thread was primarily directed towards bird dogs.

Then how much training/hunting are you actually going to do. It takes a large quantity of time, training and birds to make a dog. Pen raised training birds are not the real deal.

Rare for a great dog to be worked and trained only casually.

The GSP that you mention is predominant among the European multi-purpose breeds.

It's interesting that you don't view breeds such as the drahthaar or the griffon as bird dogs... The guys that I know who own or breed drahthaars use them only on birds.

Labradors, on the other hand, are used extensively, in this area, to trail wounded and lost deer.

I've raised 4 bird dogs of my own, and took in another from a friend in a divorce situation. I have yet to train with, hunt, or shoot any pen raised, or preserve bird.

Given that I live in north west Illinois where the ring necked pheasant is the predominant game bird, that necessarily means that my dogs see fewer birds than some, who either are hunted on preserves, or in areas better blessed with cover and game...

Still, my dogs have managed to impress a couple of hard core trialers and pro trainers with their desire, ability, and handle-ability...

I am blessed in that my property borders on private ground that, while closed to hunting, the manager allows me full access to include running/training dogs... I'd guess that at any given time, there are more pheasant on this neighboring property (some 600 acres) than on the dozen or so working farms that i hunt, collectively.

And it simply doesn't bother me that breeds like the griffon don't do well in open trials... Their reputation as a close working pointing dog is exactly what I'm seeking...

And if i should find and purchase a griffon pup, I'll be stepping into unknown territory. I've never hunted over or even seen one, except in pictures...

Love to try it...

just read this again... if your wife's dachshund weighed 55 pounds, it'd be suitable for tiger hunting... without any help from humans...

I like to play the odds when it comes to bird dogs. Less frustration. The GSP has become Americanized for so long that we have molded it to suit our needs. Pure Griffons and Drahthaars not nearly so. The ones I have seen were owned by those who wanted something different. They got there wish.

The breeding of the trials eventually filters down in most cases to us that are just hunters. It is too our benefit. I used to think, that if I wanted a pointer it would hunt close. Until I saw some good ones that pushed out and could hold their birds.
Not sure what your definition of close is, but anything 35yards and under I may as well have a flusher.

If I would have a pointer it would be something that had some snap and style when it pinned its birds. With the exception of the GSP, the few other Europeans I've seen look they are taking a nap while leaning up against a pole when they point. Admittedly I haven't seen all that many, but those impressed me little as far a being dynamic.

I often hunt my flushers with a couple good pointers that range at 75+yards on Ruffed Grouse. The ground has been pretty well covered by the time my dogs get to it. Those pointers leave little for the flushers to clean up on, except the retrieving. They are full of electricity when they say, "Come on up, I've done my job. Your turn."

My reference to pen birds was only in the context of it takes wild birds to make a great bird dog.

Ruffed Grouse in quantity have pretty much left my immediate area. For me to get into birds and enough open land I have at minimum a 2 hour drive each way. Doubt I will ever have another great Grouse dog like the ones I had in the past when it took 45min max to get into many birds. They trained on the real thing.

Good luck and wish you the best.

Addition: Best Dog I ever hunted over-until I had the Springer Duffy-for putting wild Pheasants up in front of the gun was a Beagle that didn't screw around.

yeah my children run in fear




he's just a big lap dog unless you're a cat
I can't say enough good about the VDD-GNA

kool dog... Beautiful kids....

craving more pics, and hunting tales....

this is one of my favorites... back in my black and white 35mm days all of 5 years ago



We're waiting our turn to cross the Salmon River to go kill some chuckar. It was a January hunt and the birds hadn't been hunted much (ever?) that season and there was lots of nice points. We, three of us, got 8 birds off one point.

what do you call the critter???

Sampson

check out his litter-mate stud of a brother

I like the trimmed up look...

some kinda serious looking dog...

I keep reading about all this talk of dogs other than GSP's on a bird dog forum, and I am a bit confused as to what for?