Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Discussion of Bird Dog Breeds

I might have to use that quote in the future. That is so true its not even funny!

The Brittany Spaniel, as it was originally called, was not recognized as a breed until 1907, but it existed as a "type" for at least 200 years before that.
The Brit is the only modern day pointing breed to have come from a culture in general rather than a small group's, or an individual's selective breeding efforts. Because of this, the Brit defies any sober attempt to divine his ancestry.

Jeff Griffen, Field & Stream's gun dog writer from the 1960s, wrote in his "Hunting Dogs of America" (Doubleday 1964), that different groups bred the dog for different styles of hunting, according to the areas and conditions hunted.
Griffen also mentions that two of the likeliest crosses used for the type's foundation were the Welsh Springer, and the original red and white Irish Setter.

I have had bird dogs all my life.
I've been a licensed hunter for over 30 years.
I won't put down any breed of dog because I've hunted with exceptional dogs of all different breeds.(but)
The 2 best dogs I've hunted with have been English Springer Spaniels.
I don't know if I've just been lucky or what but all the ESP's I've owned or hunted with have been truly exceptional dog's.
Maybe it has something to do with buying puppies from Springville Springer's, I'm not sure.
HTH
Eric

Best hunter I ever saw was a German Shorthair. She would cast around at just the right distance ahead of you, often see her look back and wait if you got too far behind. If the bird didn't launch she would freeze and watch the spot until you got close enough to flush the bird and pick it up and bring it back like it was an egg. Calm in the car, but loved to hunt. Spot was absolutely the best pheasant dog I have ever been around.

Of course, the worse dog I ever had was a German Shorthair. Saddleback loved to hunt, but first you had to make sure he didn't get away from you before you got him to the hunting area, since he liked to hunt wherever he was, or at least run. He ran until he flushed birds, which meant he was often a hundred yards away. However, he would often actually catch the pheasants and bring them back. Once got to pay a nice fine because he got away and brought one back before the sun was up. The game warden didn't see the humor. And he never learned anything, dense as a stump, but as friendly a beast as I ever had.

I still miss them both.

Give me a Large Munsterlander everytime!! Great family dogs,great pointers,great retrievers and will do coldwater retrieves right next to labs and chessie's all day long.

For down and nasty nothing goes all day long like a Chessie. They proved it on the Eastern Shore long ago.

Battue that can't be true!

I have a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon....having had several labs in the past, we will have Griffs from now on. Like labs, Griffs are great family dogs, good with people, exudes love and wants to please. Unlike some Pointers, Griffs are not kennel dogs AT ALL. Griffs have more personality than any other breed I have been around. Also, they are fabulous versatile bird dogs. She hunts close, slow & thorough and almost manufactures birds out of tree rows and grass/brush that other dogs have missed. This is where she shines, picking up birds, that other dogs went by. She a machine on pheasant, huns and quail, but for some reason she struggles with sharpies. She creeps with pheasant, but doesn't chase. She is a great "dead" bird hunter, but not a great retriever. I have not had her force broke though, and will not. As long as she points birds and "hunts dead" I can pick up my own birds lying in the field. Mine typically hunts ND and SE Sask. every year. Another "pro"....they do not shed.

Ours loves water, but have not hunted ducks with her. She has found one archery deer, that otherwise would have been lost.

I have also hunted over Deutsch-Drahthaars too. My FIL had a couple. They are good bird dogs as well. The Drahthaar is what led me to get a Griff. I couldn't deal with the cultish Drahthaar following, the tattoos and the German standards and regs regarding their breed. Drahthaars and Griffs are similar in a lot of ways. IMO, the Drahths are a bit more aggressive with other dogs, varmints etc., but the ones I have been around made great family pets.

Both the Griff and Drahthaar will go after skunks, porcupines, chase rabbits and deer if not kept under close control.

The many faces of Belle

very, very cool... Looking for a "Belle" of my own....

we have always had airedales, and are getting a pup this friday, my Last Airedale was a great retrevier, the dog would take hand directions and loved to swim, he would flush birds but i don't think he had the greatest of Noses, So far this will be the 4th airdale we have had, not only do they make great retreivers they are great family members, I teethed on a Airedale with no complaints, they shed very little very protective but not aggrisive toward children, they are independent enough they won't destroy your house but they love to be with you. My Last dale came in at about 120 lbs and 36" (big dale) and was the gentlest creature i have ever seen. My Grandmother had a little 5lb poodle that would hang on his ears. After grandma passed we got the poodle and the Dale and poodle were together night and day. when the airedale died, the poodle wouldn't eat for days, and stayed on his pillow in the corner, . After my experiance with several airedales i will always have a dale colse at hand

[quote=johnw
Jeff Griffen, Field & Stream's gun dog writer from the 1960s, wrote in his "Hunting Dogs of America" (Doubleday 1964), that different groups bred the dog for different styles of hunting, according to the areas and conditions hunted.
Griffen also mentions that two of the likeliest crosses used for the type's foundation were the Welsh Springer, and the original red and white Irish Setter. [/quote]

Thats the first time Ive ever heard anyone who thought Brits were just a cross between a springer and setter. Everything Ive read leads most people to believe there were EP's involved as well, if not the main cross between a springer and EP. Either way, they are great dogs, and todays brits are a lot different then the brits we hunted over 25 years ago. I expect the brits 20 years from now will be bigger, longer legged, and run bigger then the brits we have now.

I am pointer guy. For a bobwhite quail dog in these parts I don't believe anything else comes close to being equal. All of mine have been easy to train with the exception of backing.

I have hunted with Britts, GSP's, Setters and I am sure a few others. None have ever had the drive to keep up.

My pointers do range a little, 200 to 400 yards sometimes, but that has never bothered me. Many times I have cut a field short and one of my dogs has run to the corner and pointed.

There are only two problems I see with pointers. One is they don't make a good preserve dog and they don't make a good a kid dog. When I say kid dog I mean they just don't want to stand around and be petted or played with.

I would really like to hunt with a well bred setter and britt. Most of the guys that I hunt with will not give the money for a well bred dog and buy from backyard breeders with no research. I may not be given a well bred setter or brit what they deserve.

Dink

Im not trying to question you, but is your dog a 200-400 yard dog, or is it a Garmin Astro 200-400 yard dog? The reason I ask is because until they came out with the Astro, dogs seemed to run a little bigger then people thought. I talked to a guy who had an 800 yard dog, only to find out it hung out at 150 with the occasional 300-400 yard cast. Garmin's don't lie! When I was at camp this week we got to see a lot of Brittany's run. I can tell you that my dog hung out at an honest 200-300 yards with the occasional 400-500+ yard cast. 500 yards is a LONG way's away. I saw one or two dogs hit 700-800 yards, and trust me, they are only little dots on the horizon at that range. LITTLE dots! I think most dogs run a lot smaller then most people think. Most pointers will run bigger then most brits, but there are some true all age brits that will give pointers a run for their money all day long. The brits of today aren't the brits of 20 years ago. While they typically don't have the range of a pointer, many of the field trial brits are getting really, really close. The nice thing about my brit is she's a great field trial dog, great hunting dog, and she's perfectly happy lounging around the house as well.

How many AA points does she have?

Non yet. But she won her All Age Futurity. She runs a Shooting Dog brace but she's getting bigger. According to the trainer she's been hanging out at 350+ yards with the occasional 500-600 yard cast. When I saw her run this week she broke two nails and was nursing it a little. We noticed it when we put her back in the dog box. He thinks she will run bigger in trials when the adrenaline hits her. She finished her FC by 2 1/2 years old running GD trials. We are going to run her in her first AA championship starting Monday. If she does well enough we will enter her in more AA trials as well as the GD and SD stuff she will be running.

I've a GWP but it's a smooth coat, male, and not neutered. I bought him when he was three and hes now 81/2. He is a high energy dog which requires at least three days of strenuous work a week. This works when I run as I live in a rural area--if I run four he will put on eight miles working the ditches and fields parallel to my path. But if I can't get out for a couple days I feel very guilty as he puts on the "hang-dog" look in his kennel.

He is sensitive but loves people, is mild mannered around kids, and when with other dogs, he is never the problem.

He does range when hunting though is very biddable and needs a reminding "beep" and maybe a mild "tickle" or two during a days hunt. He covers ground like a tarp, is very athletic and a runner. He is death on pheasants if they hold or are knocked down and hot-footing it out of there. The challenges are the roosters that when pointed, run, sit, run, ....giving him a snoot full of scent but aren't there, which is what wild pheasants do.

He sheds like a maniac and is a kennel dog but I think if he had been in a home as a pup he'd be ok.

I have maybe one more dog in me after Bosch and I will probably go for less fire under the hood at that time.

Yes I have hunted with a Garmin (buddy has one). My dogs all average between 125 and 200 yards but will make cast 200 to 400 yards (or farther). I have a male dog that will hit 600 to 800 yards on his first cast most of the time out of the box if I don't get on his collar. When he gets that far I don't believe he his hunting but pissing on bushes and such.

I like to let my dogs range a little but in this part of the country I have to be careful or they will cross a road and get hit by a car.

Dink

If you want a really good objective analysis of all the European versatile pointing breeds, have a look at this book written by Craig Koshyk. http://www.dogwilling.ca/volume-one.html

It is by far the best reference I have found on the versatile pointing breeds, has wonderful photos, and a well reasoned analysis of each breeds strong and weak points.
I personally grew up with Weimaraners, the first bird dog I trained myself was a Large Munsterlander, and I have since switched to Pudelpointers. I found all of them to be good hunters and fine family dogs.

A few Pudelpointer pictures for those who don't know what they look like:





I prefer a dog that can hunt in all conditions, has a strong pointing instinct, good nose, and can track on land and water. Pudelpointers can do all that, and are good members of the household!

C&B....The European versatile breeds suite our hunting demands quite well. I have always wondered how the Pudelpointer was in the field. Apparently they do fine. Where did you locate your Pudlepointer? Just curious...

Your Pudelpointer looks a lot like our Griff.