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CRS, NRA Benefactor Life Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
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Campfire Ranger
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Ouch!
Thanks for sharing that info.
Out of curiosity I tried to replicate his load in Quickload. It calc'd 74% load density, so a double-charge seems unlikely.
QL calc'd pressure 30K lbs-psi.
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Campfire Ranger
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They say with Glock pistols that lead buildup at the throat can cause dangerous pressure and KBs.
The shooter cited lead at the throat in his rifle too, I wonder if that was a factor.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Some pretty stupid comments about the Marlin 1895 at that forum.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Some pretty stupid comments about the Marlin 1895 at that forum. Ringing endorsement from the king of same...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Outfitter
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How would you know? You clearly don't know anything about anything.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Wow, anything twice?? Sounds like an insult for mathman to decipher for me so then I can really know whether I should be pissed or not...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Outfitter
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And I don't care wheather you are or not jackass.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Campfire Ranger
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Give it a rest Swampy. Shane,I agree. It strikes me that the bullets were .460. Hardcast slugs are prone to leading as they seem to "skid". The description of the incident and the damage appear to indicate bore obstruction. Failure happens worst at the point of an obstruction. If the leading began at the first round,every round thereafter would deposit even more heavily on that one spot. Cumulative.ANY rifle would go "kaboom" under those conditions after a bit.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish! ![[Linked Image]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/EvilTwinMar/Sabretooth-1.jpg)
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That moniker's already taken. Perhaps Biggest jackass...in the world might work better.  You reap what you sow...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Think I would put some creadence in the double load therory. His stated load of 25gr 5744 sounds about right for the bullet he used. I just physically checked and 50 grains of 5744 will fit in a Rem 4570 case with plenty of room left over. I could have seated some very long 550 gr bullets that I have for my Sharps and the powder compression would have been mild at best. So my guess goes to the double charge.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Dave, the effect stated appeared more consistent with a bore obstruction.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OT but--Does anyone know with absolute certainty what year these models starting going south in production?
Proud to be a true Sandlapper!!
Go Nats!!!!
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Nope. Not true at all. Bores accumulate lead to a point and then settle out.
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So,
What about the 450M now?
Snake
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Campfire Tracker
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The 450 Marlin uses the same action as the 45-70 Government as does Wild West Guns 457 Wild West Mag loaded to in there data.....45,000 CUP which is sightly more in PSI and yes.....Hodgdons has data for the Marlin '95 unaltered(for strength) action to 45,000 CUP aka the 457 Mag.
I suspect some kind of barrel obstruction as the marlin has been tested to 62-65K in test for the 454 Casull and lasted about 20 rounds but didn't blow up either.
Jayco
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As a side note: its interesting that the lil ol 1892 Winchester action is repro'd as a Rossi/Puma and chambered in 454. The lil ol 92 action stronger than a big bad Marlin? 
ken@the river
GO DUCKS!
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Per an email question/response I had with Marlin tech support a few years ago ref the 1895 and 1985M actions, they are similar in outward appearance but the 1895M (450 Marlin) action is different and has a higher SAAMI pressure limit of 43.5K psi vs the standard 1895 action in the 45-70 of 38K psi.
The reason they gave is that the threads on the standard 1895 are "U" shaped and the threads on the 1895M are "V" cut. The "V" cut are a little shallower thereby leaving the walls of both the barrel and receiver a tad thicker and there are more per inch and therefore have more surface area and "stronger".
The difference in threads is why you can't interchange barrels between a standard 1895 and a 1895M.
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1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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As is anything you say here!!!
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Rahtreelimbs:
If you noticed Swamp and I joined the board about the same time. After the first few hundred of his posts, none of which added any value to any of the topics, I just put him on "Ignore"
Pretty easy to see from those who've quote him in replies since 2008, after 8400 additional posts he still has never added anything of substance.
Life is too short to suffer fools - just put him on "Ignore".
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Pressures had to have been very high for that to happen. I use 45k as my upper limit. If you go beyond that the action will loosen after a couple shots and the lever will try to open when you fire. The 336 action is proofed at 60k something, and my guess is that the pressure seen in the blown up gun in the link was beyond the proof pressure.
It is good practice to use the slowest burning powder that delivers the performance you want. With fast burning powders, an extra grain or two or a different batch can make a bigger difference than an extra grain or two of a slow powder. I choose powders that fill my case 95-105%. When loading to the "edge" at 45k I also hand weigh every load versus relying on a powder drop.
The more I build up a tolerance to recoil, the more I need to get my fix.
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How would you know? You clearly don't know anything about anything. Boolean logic would follow that he in turn knows something about everything. Or something about something Or everything about something. or everything about everything.
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Campfire Outfitter
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You don't know $hit either. That's the norm here.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Swampy gets off his medicine every now and then. It'll pass.
DF
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So, Ive given this a lot of thought, I like leading fot the problem.
Snake
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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You don't know $hit either. That's the norm here. Consider yourself at the top of the list!
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Pressures had to have been very high for that to happen. I use 45k as my upper limit. If you go beyond that the action will loosen after a couple shots and the lever will try to open when you fire. The 336 action is proofed at 60k something, and my guess is that the pressure seen in the blown up gun in the link was beyond the proof pressure.
It is good practice to use the slowest burning powder that delivers the performance you want. With fast burning powders, an extra grain or two or a different batch can make a bigger difference than an extra grain or two of a slow powder. I choose powders that fill my case 95-105%. When loading to the "edge" at 45k I also hand weigh every load versus relying on a powder drop. a 45-70 Marlin is good for about 38 to 39K psi, while the .450 is good for close to 43K psi. A Winchester will be a little less. Shooting a 45-70 Marlin at 45K psi is an accident simply waiting to happen. The SAAMI spec for the 45-70 is 28K psi in modern firearms and much lower in the older stuff gary
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As you know, the 45-70 has three published pressure ranges, the top being the Ruger #1 with certain Mausers even stronger. The Marlin '95's are in the second tier. I don't know which Winchester(s) you're talking about, but generally the '92 and clones are stronger than the 1894 Marlin. You see Rossi and other '92 clones chambered for .454 and similar, not Marlins. I think the 1886 Winchester clones will tolerate more pressure than the Marlin 1895. My BPCR 1885 clone will operate at near Ruger #1 levels without a problem. Those JMB designs are very strong.
DF
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The three published pressure levels for the 45-70 are well known. As you say, the 1886 clones are the strongest of the lever guns for this caliber, and will handle pressures in the 50,000 psi range.
Doug Turnbull manufactures his 475 and 470 Turnbull rifles on 1886 clone actions. They are seriously strong lever actions.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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The pressure levels for the 45-70 are well known yet Wild West Guns makes an altered for length only version of the Marlin 1895 called the 457 Wild West Mag that operates at 45,000 CUP..Do the conversion and you will be right at 48,000 PSI.
When a Marlin blows up,it isn't from just one round over pressure,it is usually from a barrel obstruction.Test were done by Freedom Arms for the 454 Casull operating at 65,000 PSI SAAMI with the Winchester '94 and Marlin '95..The Marlin failed first at rounds in the 62-63,000 PSI level with just 20 rounds through it.
It did not "Blow Up" it just broke with the action mangled to where it would not function anymore.
Jayco
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The pressure levels for the 45-70 are well known yet Wild West Guns makes an altered for length only version of the Marlin 1895 called the 457 Wild West Mag that operates at 45,000 CUP..Do the conversion and you will be right at 48,000 PSI.
When a Marlin blows up,it isn't from just one round over pressure,it is usually from a barrel obstruction.Test were done by Freedom Arms for the 454 Casull operating at 65,000 PSI SAAMI with the Winchester '94 and Marlin '95..The Marlin failed first at rounds in the 62-63,000 PSI level with just 20 rounds through it.
It did not "Blow Up" it just broke with the action mangled to where it would not function anymore.
Jayco And the tiny little model 1892 Browning design Winchester handles 454s just fine in the Rossi/Puma. Old JB knew what he was doing!
ken@the river
GO DUCKS!
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