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#5682366 - 10/05/11 what next??
Sponxx Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 1118
Loc: Houston, TX
Hey guys, relatively inexperienced reloader with off the rack hunting gun. I did bedding and got a Timney trigger.
Working up loads for 7mm RM with RL22 and Sierra 160gr Gamekings (as a proxy for 160NPT´s that have shot to same POI so far)
No pressure signs with any of the loads.
Brass is Federal and primers are Rem 9 1/2 Large Magnum
All POA was the lower gray box

63gr


64gr RL22 group


64.5gr


65gr



Overlay of all 9 shots - Black is 64gr shots, Red is 64.5gr and blue 65gr of RL22


This is another target in which I shot 1 shot each of 63, 64, 64.5 and 65...

the 63gr shot was the flyer, and I knew it was going to be funky cause the bolt felt tight when closing. of course the primer was flat... the brass neck was a little long I believe.


what do you guys think? No pressure signs at 65gr, so I can push faster, but I think that somewhere in the 64.5gr area there is a nice node.
No chrony, so no idea about velocities, in what increments and should I reload the next test batch or which loads to tinker?
Thanks!


Edited by Sponxx (10/05/11)

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#5682487 - 10/05/11 Re: what next?? [Re: Sponxx]
bigsqueeze Offline
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Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 6359
Loc: So Cal
The Sierra manual shows 65.2 gr RL22 for max @ 3100 fps.

If you are getting no pressure signs then why not take it up a notch or two and see what she can do. Imo, there`s no dis-advantage in finding out what your individual rifle`s maximum tolerance capabilities are. It is more a curiosity factor.

From the 65 grains you`ve already used without pressure signs, load up some with 65.2, 65.4, 65.6, 65.8 and so on. Then once you see any small signs of pressure, back off a 1/2 grain and call that your maximum.

Each rifle has its own individual character for load tolerance. Some can`t reach book maximums without seeing pressure signs while others can go over book maximums a little before seeing pressure signs.

Once you establish what your maximum load is using RL22, then play with your seating depths to see what bullet jump distances your rifle prefers for best accuracy for that particular RL22 maximum charge.
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#5682557 - 10/05/11 Re: what next?? [Re: bigsqueeze]
Sponxx Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 1118
Loc: Houston, TX
Thanks for the Sierra data. A friend had run a quickload search with my components and got max of 68.6 grains for 3056fps and 62152 PSI which seems like a lot of powder and not quite speedy, so not sure what gives... as said book velocities tend to be generous. Lyman has 66gr for 2933fps, though it is the Jacketed Failsafe not the GameKing

Is it worth going up SAFELY by more than 0.2gr per load? say in 0.5gr increments?

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#5682590 - 10/05/11 Re: what next?? [Re: Sponxx]
Reloader7RM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 5890
Loc: NW La.
Try 66g and adjust seating depth. Seating depth plays a huge role at times. Some loads perform the best on paper near max. If that doesn't work, give IMR7828 a spin.

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#5682599 - 10/05/11 Re: what next?? [Re: Sponxx]
bigsqueeze Offline
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Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 6359
Loc: So Cal
If you wanna use .5 grain increments you can, but once you get close to max such as you are now with 65 grains, then .2 increments of increase are better imo.

Increasing by increments of .2 of a grain narrows down more precisely or pinpoints better the max charge your rifle accepts.

Once you get to that point, back off 1/2 grain.
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#5682658 - 10/05/11 Re: what next?? [Re: bigsqueeze]
VonGruff Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 810
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand
As far as the increase in .2gn goes, I would add that if your scale is only capable of .1gn accuracy as most are then the .2gn may not show an increase as eg a 65.2 gn load may in fact be a bit high by .1 and a 65.4 load may be .1 low for the same actual 65.3gn. Extreme eg I know but for that reason I go no tighter than .3 for my med to larger cases.
While I might try pushing through the 65.5gn for interests sake I am looking for accuracy first and would probably work in the 64 - 65 gn loads looking at seating depth as an adjustable.

Von Gruff.
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#5682843 - 10/05/11 Re: what next?? [Re: VonGruff]
Sponxx Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 1118
Loc: Houston, TX
thanks for all the input... I am, like Von Gruff, loading for accuracy and it seemed to me that the 64-65 charge was promising and feel tempted to play with the seating depth. I have also read and heard from experienced reloaders that many times the best node is close to max, and was wondering if I should keep pushing and if 0.5gr might just go over the node.

I have a 505 scale, but the 0.1gr and Standard deviation example is well taken. Maybe I'll try 65.3 and 65.6 for pressure signs... if accuracy is not there then I'll toy with the seating depth.

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#5684602 - 10/06/11 Re: what next?? [Re: Sponxx]
selmer Offline
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Registered: 12/04/02
Posts: 6032
Loc: Upper Midwest
Unless you're striving for BR accuracy, then I'd load 64 gr. of RL22, sight in, and go kill whatever you shoot at.
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"Daddy, can you sometime maybe please go shoot a water buffalo so we can have that for supper? Please? And can I come along? Does it taste like deer?"
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#5684778 - 10/06/11 Re: what next?? [Re: selmer]
Reloader7RM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 5890
Loc: NW La.
Sponxx,

I've never seen 66grn R22 show pressure signs on any 7rm I've ever loaded for(own 3 currently and have loaded for many others). IMO you can go higher, but I would always start at 65 and 66 for the first loads based on experience. BTDT too many times with too many 7RMs. What I see in your groups is two together, one off, which is often cured with seating depth adjustment. Move to 66 and tinker with depth. Try 4 touching to .003 off, 4 at .010 off, 4 at .020 off, etc and find the sweet spot. I have never found any use for less than .5grn powder adjustment until the best whole grn number is found, best depth, then .5 to see change(then lower increments if needed). You can chase your tail to no end with this stuff, but you'll find over time a system that works.

Good Luck

loder

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#5686227 - 10/06/11 Re: what next?? [Re: selmer]
Sponxx Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 1118
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: selmer
Unless you're striving for BR accuracy, then I'd load 64 gr. of RL22, sight in, and go kill whatever you shoot at.

I agree absolutely, but kind of also feel like maybe there is some more accuracy hiding somewhere... seen it with Federal Premiums in the same gun. Don't want to go crazy either, but would want to achieve at least similar accuracy with my handloads.

Reloader7RM,
I will try some hotter charges, but at the same level I don't need those extra fps at the expense of barrel and brass life. Is it worth just changing the seating depth on those loads, if I am going to try higher charges??? it is the first gun I've ever reloaded for.

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#5686694 - 10/07/11 Re: what next?? [Re: selmer]
efw Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 12654
Loc: Mi.
Originally Posted By: selmer
Unless you're striving for BR accuracy, then I'd load 64 gr. of RL22, sight in, and go kill whatever you shoot at.


That right there sounds like a plan.

I personally don't like to work at the upper levels of pressure tolerances because it leaves you less room for error, and lets face it. That load is a winner.

Honestly, unless you're hunting brown bear or something I'd run that Sierra and not even worry about the NPT. The way you're hittin' you're golden w/ that projectile, particularly if you're going w/ the HPBT Game King version... elk'll fall to the authority of that load no doubt.
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#5686731 - 10/07/11 Re: what next?? [Re: Sponxx]
Sakoluvr Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 6930
Loc: Where the wild things are.
Have you checked runout on your handloads?
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#5686976 - 10/07/11 Re: what next?? [Re: selmer]
bsa1917hunter Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 08/12/10
Posts: 21311
Loc: Orygun
Originally Posted By: selmer
Unless you're striving for BR accuracy, then I'd load 64 gr. of RL22, sight in, and go kill whatever you shoot at.


Exactly what I was thinking. However, with the 64 gr. charge you could experiment with seating depth and see what the groups do. I'm not a hotrodder but seek the best accuracy and it seems like your 64 gr. load is the most promising of the bunch. Good luck with it.
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#5687373 - 10/07/11 Re: what next?? [Re: bsa1917hunter]
Sponxx Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 1118
Loc: Houston, TX
Thanks for the comments and input... I might try just for the heck of it some 65.5 and (maybe) 66gr just to see where and if I see a pressure limit. I will load some more in 0.3gr increments between 63.8 and 65 and see if anything changes, and play with seating depth on the most accurate charge...
I won't be anywhere near an elk this year, but hopefully that will change in the next year or two, so no rush to get the load going for the big ones... deer and hogs is what it will most likely see in its near future, so I will keep shooting the Sierra's then, which are the SBT not the HPBT.

Originally Posted By: Sakoluvr
Have you checked runout on your handloads?

I do not have any runout gauges or anything like that... standard RCBS FL and seater dies, calipers and trying to be careful. I do roll them to see if there is evident misalignment, but don't formally check the runout.


Edited by Sponxx (10/07/11)

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#5687435 - 10/07/11 Re: what next?? [Re: Sponxx]
BlackDog1 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 1559
Have you tried Rel. 25? it may surprise you.
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#5688138 - 10/07/11 Re: what next?? [Re: BlackDog1]
Reloader7RM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 5890
Loc: NW La.
Sponxx, I wasn't suggesting taking it to the extreme limit, just specifying a load range that has always been the sweet spot for me with that powder. It's not the max pressure sign wise for any 7rm I've loaded for, in fact the case life is very good as long as you aren't overworking your brass. RO is definitely something you should check. If you don't have a gauge, the easiest way to check is to buy a small piece of aluminum angle, draw a reference line, and roll the loads in the V. You wont get measures like a gauge obviously, but the crooked loads will very easily show themselves.

An yes, tinkering with SD on your existing loads could very well give you the exact accuracy you're after. I just recently saw a dramatic change in accuracy in one of my rigs with seating depth alone. Always a good thing to visit when loads are almost there or when flyers are present(assuming RO is not an issue).

For your first go at handloading, you're not doing bad at all. Congrats on success and welcome to the addictive hobby.

Good luck,

loder

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#5703394 - 10/12/11 Re: what next?? [Re: Reloader7RM]
HaYen Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 1594
Loc: Arizona
A lot of great advice listed above. Looks like RL22 needs a little work. Hmmm but what kind?

Originally Posted By: bigsqueeze
... Once you establish what your maximum load is using RL22, then play with your seating depths to see what bullet jump distances your rifle prefers for best accuracy for that particular RL22 maximum charge.


Originally Posted By: Reloader7RM
Try 66g and adjust seating depth. Seating depth plays a huge role at times.


Originally Posted By: Reloader7RM
... What I see in your groups is two together, one off, which is often cured with seating depth adjustment. Move to 66 and tinker with depth. Try 4 touching to .003 off, 4 at .010 off, 4 at .020 off, etc and find the sweet spot.
loder


Originally Posted By: bsa1917hunter
... you could experiment with seating depth and see what the groups do.


Originally Posted By: Reloader7RM

An yes, tinkering with SD on your existing loads could very well give you the exact accuracy you're after. I just recently saw a dramatic change in accuracy in one of my rigs with seating depth alone. Always a good thing to visit when loads are almost there or when flyers are present(assuming RO is not an issue).
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#5728468 - 10/19/11 Re: what next?? [Re: HaYen]
bearbacker Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 735
Just a few observations...

Any of the loads you have tried will do the job. You won't miss a game animal with any of them, so pick one, load up a box and go kill stuff. You don't have to finish load development before you can hunt with this gun.

The hunting trip does not mean the load development is over. You have the rest of the barrel life for that, so you can keep on trying new parts of the recipe to your heart's content.

In addition to varying seating depth, try different primers. You didn't mention what you are using, but sometimes a different primer makes a difference.

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