Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only First big bore advice?

Greetings all. I am new to the forum. Been reading your posts with intrest. Always wanted a bigbore gun and now have some folks to ask.
<br>I presently only have one big bore, a 577/450 Martini-Henry.
<br>With full power loads its an A number one Zulu whacker.
<br>Been thinking about getting a modern caliber.
<br>Which one do you think would be a good starter caliber?
<br>I'm partial to the classic African calibers like .375H&H or maybe .416Rigby.
<br>What is a decent rifle at a decent price? I can't afford some $43,000 Purdey.
<br>What say you?

Moonpie, you want a big bore, why? Do you have a particular use in mind or do you want to be like some of us who just get a kick out of self abuse. i shoot a big bore pistol, 45/70 in a Contender, a Ruger #1 in 45-70, a rolling block in 45-70 and you gussed it a Springfield trap door in 45-70. I didn't set out to get a collection of 45-70's it just sort of happened. I also have a 458x2 American and a few mid size bores, 338's taking up the most space in the gun locker. I have a older Winchester 375 H&H model 70 but I find the 338 much more to my liking. But if you want a real big bore that offers a lot of versatility it's tough to beat the 45-70 in a modern rifle.
<br>
<br>Bullwnkl.

Rigbys are cool! Can you say "BOOM"
<br>But factory ammo is not inexpensive ($6.00 per round)
<br>But reloading helps a bunch.
<br>A 375HH is more enjoyable (to me) to shoot around with compared to full house Rigby loads.
<br>If you want something to play with, the Ruger #1 is a fairly inexpensive way to get into a decent "big bore". Choice of calibers could include the 375HH, 416 Rigby, 416Rem, or 45/70, and probably others. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them.
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<br>Of course you can get some pretty good deals on some of the turnbolts too. and they might be more practical. But a #1 in Rigby is by far the most cost effective way to play the Rigby game.
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<br>Good luck,
<br>Bill in NE

Big bore Remingtons, Winchesters, Browniings and CZs are pretty cheap. About $600.
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<br>If you buy factory ammo the 375 H&H is the cheapest by far. You can get soft point ammo for about $1 a round and premium bullets will cost $2 and up around.
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Why? Why not I say. Really though I just want to play around with one. Them paper Rhino's can be tough to put down ya' know. I'll never make it to Africa but I can still shoot the rifles the great hunters used.
<br>I reload pretty much everything and anything so ammo cost isn't much of a problem. Sheeshh...I've got rifles that have NEVER had a factory round fired through them.
<br>I saw something a while back about a caliber called a .470Capstick. Now I know who Peter Capstick is/was.
<br>What is this caliber/round like? I see the Mod70Win came in it.
<br>Any opinions?

MoonPie,
<br>
<br>The 470 Capstick is essentially a .375H&H necked up, here is what was written about the 470 Capstick in the A-Square (the designers of this cartridge) book:
<br>
<br>. 470 Capstick - This cartridge was designed by LTC Arthur B. Alphin and named alter the famous author, Peter Capstick lt delivers the maximum killing power possible from the H&H belted headsize while retaining the greater magazine capacity of the H&H headsize over the Weatherby or Rigby headsize. lt delivers 500 grain bullets at 2400 feet per second. This gives it good ballistics on paper. However, its greater diameter bullets deliver distinctly more shock than any of the .458's or .460's. It definitely kills better than its paper figures indicate. It is an excellent cartridge for heavy game out to 200 yards and dangerous game at close ranges. It�s trajectory is also flat enough that shots can be placed in medium game at ranges up to 250 yards. This cartridge, when used in an A-Square rifle, is still within the recoil threshold of the occasional hunter. Despite its lesser energy figures, the 470 Capstick's greater shock transmission (from the bigger bullets), lower recoil, and greater magazine capacity make it a preferred choice over the .460 Weatherby. For the man who wants a heavy rifle in order to round out his battery, or to complement a .338,.375, or similar cartddge, the 470 Capstick is near ideal.
<br>
<br>-Mr Mike

Moonpie,
<br>the Capstick is kind of an oddball, and I would not recommend it. The .470 bullets are going to be expensive and rare. May I recommend the .458Win Mag, or .458 Lott approach. Both are the same cartridge given the 38/357 treatment, with the Lott being a touch longer. And the "cheap" bullets are available for practice. .458 Lott gets you about 200-300 fps over the standard .458 Win Mag velocity, 2000-2300 comparitively. 2300fps and 500grns
<br>is good medicine for Buffalo/Elephant etc.
<br>
<br>.458 Lott ammo is commercially available (read properly headstamped) in case you ever take it out of the country, some dutiful government official shouldn't feel it necessary to seperate you and your "incorrect" ammo. It's been done.
<br>
<br>You can buy a used .458 Winchester, and have it easily converted to .458 Lott, by changing the magazine box, and cleaning the chamber up with a reamer. It will need a few other minor tweaks, but I've had it done to my rifle, and any competent gunsmith will have no trouble.
<br>
<br>One of the major benefits of .458 Lott is that you can safely shoot .458 Win Mag, in case your ammo get's lost or damaged.
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<br>Mag-na-porting these big boys is highly recommended, and I find it VERY effective.

Go with the 375 H&H as a starter. The recoil isn't abusive, ammo is commonly available, and it is a superb hunting caliber, even if you only take it after white tails and pigs. I'd look at the CZ 550 and Win M70.
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<br>Once you are comfortable shooting a 375, then consider something bigger.
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<br>If you want to talk to some serious big bore nuts, and want to learn about some rounds you likely haven't heard of, go to accuratereloading.com and check out the big bore forum.

EITHER GET YOURSELF A .416 RIGBY OR A .458 WIN MAG. BUT IM A BIG FAN OF THE .416 RIGBY SO IF I WAS BUYIN I WOULD GET THE RIGBY. BUT THE .458 IS ALSO A NICE CALIBER. I BELIVE THAT A .375 H&H IS A MEDIUM CALIBER RIFLE IF YOU WANNA BIG BORE GET SOMETHIN OVER A.40 CAL.

If I can't kill it with a .375H&H I am not going to hunt it.

Miki -

Here, here

tq

Think about it.
You want a big bore, or a hunting gun?
375H&H is both, some.
But if you just want a really big hole, go 458-bore.
Recoil depends alot on your own loads, of course, and even with the 375 you aren't going to sit and put 100 rounds thru it.
One of my favorite fantasies is a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby, rebarrelled when $$ permits to 450 Rigby. Or 450 Dakota - same alike.
You can prolly even find some reduced loads for cast bullets.

TC

72gr of Reloader 7 and a Hornady 350 RN in the .458 WinMag a fun load to shoot. Makes nice neat holes in stuff too!

.375 H&H a great place to start. .416 Taylor will give you Rigby ballistics in regular length actions.

Ruger #1's are GREAT

Guess I didn't really say anything not already said did I?

KDK

Hold on a minute folks, nobody is a bigger fan of the 375HH then I am. I have killed some really big game multiple times over the last 20 years with mine. If there were to be a law saying we could only own a single gun, my 375HH would be my choice.

However that does not make it a "big bore" rifle. It's only a medium bore rifle and not ner the top of the list. All the 416's are also medium bores as well. These might seem big and be included in the "American" definition because we don't use guns that big in the USA.

However the Big bore rifles begin at 458 diameter if you want to go by the international description of the bore size. As far as I'm concerned the international definition is the only one that matters because the big bore as defined are not only not needed in the USA for practical purposes they were never designed in the USA either. England was responsible for the developement of the big bore guns and the majority of their use in Africa.

With the Posted question as stated the starting point is the 458 diameter bore size. If the intent was "Big Gun" that's much different then "Big Bore" My feelings on the 375HH are not a secret. However when I had to step up for a rifle to use at work for my Safari business I chose the 458 Lott. It is a great balance between usablity, power, cost and availability of components, ease of loading and common use in Africa.

Most of the PH's I know and work with who had been using the 458 Win mag I don't know a single one now still using it. They have all had the work done to become Lott shooters. I have seen this cartridge crumple so much game now that my confidence is very high with it. When you see an animal hit with a 450-500 grain bullet from that gun at 50 yards or so it's an amazing impact on it's body. I have watched animals crumple and fall so many times, many at full stride.

There are certainly more powerful cartridges then this and bigger bore diameters. However as much as I like to shoot it's not practical to have a gun with difficult to locate bullets or expensive components. When I was shopping for the dies for my Lott they cost 170.00 bucks for RCBS to custom make them. Now Hornady sells them for 25 bucks!

Hornady also makes factory ammo. You can also shoot 458 win mag ammo. What ever you choose get a Lee factory crimp die for the cartridge. It will make a big difference to the shells in your magazine. They never come loose with this crimp die.

The Lott can be loaded down to 45/70 power or up to your recoil tolerance. Mine has a 22inch barrel and gets 2200 plus with 500 grain bullets and 2300 plus with 450 grain X bullets which are the bullets I shoot for work.

There may be some restrictions on 50 caliber or larger rifles for hunting in some states or so I have heard. My home state of Washington says you cannot hunt with 50 caliber or larger centerfire guns. Check into that before you find you have a rifle you cannot hunt with in your state!

Up until we started to look into booking our safari I didn't own anything bigger than my .340 Weatherby. Then came the .450 Marlin in a Ruger No. 1 and it snow balled after that. Now there is another .450 Marlin(Win. M70) in the safe along with two .375 H&H's, a .375 Weatherby, a .416 Rigby and a .450 Rigby. When is it ever going to end. My opinion is to start out with a .375 H&H and then go from there. And most likely there will be a "from there" as big bores grow on you. Lawdog

Moonpie,
Not sure if you're talking bolt action, single shot or what, but I sure do love the 45-70 and .458 Win in lever action. Both have loads available for a variety of game as well as target shooting, and just fun to shoot- rifles are affordable...just my opinion.

Even though the purists don't consider them big bores, as JJ has pointed out, it is hard to go wrong with a 375 H&H. Recoil is mild and it has a lot of thump.



Blaine

I just acquired my first "big bore". I had considered buying a new M70 375 H&H may times. Don't know why I never did.Then I came upon a stainless M70 barrel and a 375 Weatherby reamer...so I cranked the barrel off of a Rem 700 7 Mag that I had no further use for and rethreaded and rechambered the M70 barrel.I just got it in the stock tonite. I put it into the factory walnut stock from my BDL 300 Win Mag.Do you think I will need to install cross-bolts?The stock was glass bedded with the 300.Not what I thought I'd have as a first 375 but it's here and I'll be shooting it as soon as I can locate a set of dies.Gunshow here in two weeks.I also got about 20 new Norma cases and a handfull of fired Norma cases and some H&H cases fired in the Weatherby chamber.I plan on starting with H414 and 270 gr Hornadys.

An excellent stock that will hold up is the Hogue with the aluminum bedding block. it runs about $200. I have one of these on my 416, and also had one on a 375 Ack. It is excellent for reducing recoil.

I don't know how well your wooden stock will hold up. The 375 H&H recoil is more of a push than a jab. To me, it is more comfortable to shoot than a 300 Win.

Blaine

To call your rifle "number one Zulu whacker" may be historically accurate but lacks any thread of humanity. The Zulus are not big game but a people tragically caught up in the violent takeover of their land by the British. I know you did not mean it as it came out.