Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting What weight Berger VLD is best for LR deer using .308 win??????

Good luck. Hope you get a big boy...

The first shot definitely would have killed him, but we were on a private lease and he was making his way down the hill towards the neighbors property. Didn't want him to get away so put another in him. Here's the front shoulder damage - this was the entrance.



And at 29 1/2 inches wide, I didn't want him to get away!




I know it sounds like sour grapes to be complaining about bullet performance on a dead deer, but I actually like to eat the things.

I would use 175 gr. Hunting VLD , better BC's and more retained LR energy than 165's. I will be using 175 VLD's this season out of my 308 deer for the first time. My gun loves them at the range , one hole groups.

.30 cal VLD's don't come in 165 grs.

If you're comparing 168's to 175's, run some numbers for us to show the difference, if it's anything to sneeze at.

BTW, welcome to 24HCF.

Yeah at reasonable hunting range of the 308 WIN. there is probably not enough difference to sneeze at. Shooting targets way out there the 175's would take over.

How much?

Enough to sneeze at.

At 800 yards, what difference have you seen between the bullets?

At sea level the 168 vld drifts 59.32 in a 10 mph @800 MV of 2750
the 175 vld started at 2650 drifts 58.66 under the same conditions. I would say you won't see any real benefits till you get to the 185 or heavier bullets. The 175 LRBT drifts 55.96 in the same conditions. The 185 LRBT drifts 51.64 started at 2600 in the same conditions. All these were figured using Bergers ballistics program and Bryan Litz's BCs.

Not long range, but I've had good success using the 155gr Berger.
Left a softball size exit hole shown here.

And a few Africa kills also....

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5344708/1

That's an awesome buck!

Killertraylor,

That entrance hole looks to me like the result of blow-back from bone fragments. I've seen similar damage from a lot of bullets that hit shoulder bone, and on occasion the bullet was even a Barnes X.

I've seen a lot of animals killed with Berger VLD's and far more typical is an entrance hole that can hard to locate, with almost no meat damage.

Thanks for the information and I think it points out a few things to consider if one wants to give the VLD a try as a big game bullet.

I really believe that a maximum muzzle velocity of 3200fps +/- is about the highest I have consistently seen great result in both accuracy and reliable killing performance. I think KillerTaylor was running around 3400fps in his 6.5 Weatherby and that is most likely a little too much of a good thing.

Combine high muzzle velocity with a 150yd shot and you are going to get some pretty serious damage. I have to say that the loss of the ham from a bullet hitting on the shoulder shows pretty good penetration, in my opinion, and most any modern cartridge is going to be pretty destructive to a mule deer�s ham if it hits the ham.

Berger increased the thickness of the jacket on the target line of bullets because some competitors would smoke a bullet on the way to the target while shooting fast strings of fire to try and stay with a condition. If one wants to try the VLD and is shooting a really overbore type of cartridge then possibly the target VLD would be a better choice.

In the end for me I would say that any bullet I shot into the shoulder of a big muley that penetrated all the way to the off side ham and still had enough juice to blood shot meat worked pretty well.

As for the .308 I would recommend the 155gr as I like the slightly flatter trajectory in the mid range and really think the .308 Win is at its best inside 600yds on game, especially at low altitude.

John, any feedback on the new "Hybrid" in hunting applications?

that would be a GREAT new topic as not to hijack this thread? there are plenty of opinions here

Berger's are awesome hunting bullets,especially at long range! as is the Amax. I don't see why anybody needs a bonded bullet for deer unless it is under 200yds and smoking fast!? I would rather ride the Berger wagon than the New Bonded cart.Match the caliber and bullet weight to the game and the core-lock is plenty,but BC puts the energy down range with less drift and drop.
i do believe we are in the long range section?
carry your bonded for close and when going far your bonded bullets BC will lose.
Accubonds come close.

and the original question?
What weight Berger VLD is best fot LR deer using .308 win

the heaviest/highest Berger VLD BC bullet that will reliably stabalize with your rifles twist,period.

The 6.5's are usually twisted fast too, like 1/8 or so. Fast twist plus high MV really has to crank up the centrifugal G-forces on the bullet. No doubt it would nuke in dramatic fashion as compared to something like a 308 Win pushing 190s out of a 1/12 bbl, at a modest 2600 fps or so.

I have had 130 Berger blow up inside a 100 yds when pushed to 3200 and that is just hitting air. Barrel only had 73 rounds through it too!

Scenars and Normas held up fine. Didn't have any yellow box Bergers to try.

I think this barrel might have got a rough spot in it after I had it melonite treated as it would throw the 130s out of a group and some would blow. They aren't very forgiving to anything scratching on their sheer jackets!

I have had a lot of problems with the 6mm 115s, 7mm 180s, and .224 90gr bergers blowing up, but the 6.5s seem a little tougher jacketed to me. I have been pushing the 140s at 330 out of an 8T 28 inch kreiger 6.5 WSM. Only bloodied the rifle once (actually it was the wife) on a 450 yard antelope, but I was pretty impressed with its performance. I have not taken it out any further than 1150 but my wife shot some amazing groups in some strong but steady winds. I think I had 8 MOA of windage dialed in for her and she shot two softball size groups all around the bullseye. I just thought she could shoot her 6mmx284 and her 25x284. She shot those groups standing on a step ladder leaning on the side of my truck where I had the rifle in one of those cheapest caldwell rests sitting on the bed cover. I am going to try the .30 cal 230gr bergers this week in a 30-338 Lapua improved, I hope they hold together as well as the 6.5s.

BTW just as a warning you need a long throat to push the 140s 3300 out of a 6.5WSM I would not try it without a very long COAL.

I have filled several large meat sheds with the 165 grain Nosler ballistic tip shot at 2,800 fps. I have killed moose and elk at 20 yards with full penetration, deer and elk at over 500 with complete pass through shots as well. Out of all the big game animals I have taken with this bullet, only two took a step and that was about all they took.

I don't have any experience with the Bergers, so I can't comment. I have everything I need in the ballistic tip at 2,700-2,800 fps. The BC of this bullet isn't anything to sneeze at either. I don't mind dialing in two more clicks at 500 yards Flinch