Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns Sidelock or Boxlock? Any opinions?

Although I learned wingshooting with a Winchester Model 12, and my early shotgunning was all done with Model 12's and Remington 870's, my first real shotgun was a side-by-side double.

I fell in love with double guns early in life, and like the man who all his life won't even look at a woman who hasn't the same color of blonde hair as his first girlfriend, I've never seriously wanted or bought any sporting shotguns in my adult life that weren't side-by-side doubles.

As it happens, I've done 90% or more of my bird hunting since my early 20's with only two shotguns, both 12-ga Ithaca SKB Model 200E's: one mine, and the other my son's. The guns just fit me. But my son's shotgun now lives with him in Wisconsin, and mine is awfully beat up and in need of some serious restoration work. This fall I've been carrying and shooting a pretty little 20-gauge double, a Spanish Brand-X, and it has worked well enough, but it's not really a good fit for me and she's not all that pretty...

Fact is, I've reached a point in my life where I can afford to give myself a bit of a treat now and then, and for a while now I've been hankering after a really fine English-style gun. I'm not talking a 6-figure gun, or even a 5-figure gun. But we're talking a lot more money than I've ever spent on any kind of firearm before, and I'm mulling the options.

One of the things I've stumbled across in my research is the differences between boxlock and sidelock actions. Like a lot of people, I love the look of a sidelock gun, especially with good engraving and fine case-coloring. But boxlocks (the only double gun action I have any real experience with) are strong, apparently indestructible, and if executed well, can be awfully pretty as well.

I'm still doing the research before I take the plunge, but since there appears to be a wealth of experience and information among my fellow 24HCF denizens here, I thought I'd ask if there are any opinions on the boxlock vs sidelock question?

boy you are opening a big box...

I'd check out Greeners full side locks... seen a really nice one on GI from a guy in NJ that I can not remember off the top of my head...

Lots of high grade box locks out there...

I'm sort of overwhelmed thinking about it... and don't have enough experience with SLs to have much say...

I have box locks, box locks with side plates and a true side lock. Ti be very honest with you if it fits makes no difference. I lean to box locks as the stocks are stronger and the mechanical works are simpler, but due use all three types of SxSs. One of true sidelocks is going to SW Louisiana on my annual duck right after Christmas along with a sister box lock.

I absolutely love a light, long and lively English SxS. My W&S Screw Grip BLE has 30" tubes, 2-1/2" chambers and yet only weighs 6 lb 2 oz.

Alan

Gorgeous!!! Did you know there are two species of ptarmigan there?

I have boxlock, sidelock, and false sidelock SxS guns and feel the level you are looking at eliminates that consideration except for aesthetic concerns. False sidelocks increase the canvas size and "look" richer. But a Philadelphia Fox boxlock need not be homely...

Bending stocks is more than possible, so most stocks can be made to work for you. Knowing exactly what works for you should enable a good hand to match it.

Find your aesthetic choice and get someone to make it work for you...

Art,

Really, two species out of the same covey?

Alan

Yup, not at all uncommon. Bills are easiest to use to tell them apart... The bird on the left would have had a shorter, stouter bill than the other two. Right is a rooster willow, then either a hen or juvenile rooster and the left bird is a rock ptarmigan rooster.

For a long time I did not recognize the difference... Now it amazes me how different they look and how I failed to catch it.

BTW, willow ptarmigan and red grouse (as in the standard driven bird in Scotland) are the same species.

Just to confuse you more, I favor the Back-action Hammerguns.

Both styles of action have their pluses and minuses. Both are good. (Well maybe LC Smith sidelock guns are a little better! ) Bottom line, find one that fits you, or can be made to fit you, and which also pleases you aesthetically and financially and buy it. Don't worry too much about which type is better.

P.S. Don't overlook the world of English and Continental box lock doubles. There can be some astounding values to be found there (but it's best to let someone with knowledge thereof guide you as there are pitfalls to be found also.)

Yep, but they need to be on drillings.

I have two LC Smith sidelocks, and a few boxlocks. I can't tell any difference in performance. The thing about sidelocks is supposed to be you can remove the locks easily, although I don't know if that's the case or not. Boxlocks are generally heavier in the lock mechanism, but very reliable. LC Smiths in particular (post WW I ones) are notorious for cracking the stock behind the locks. American Walnut is the culprit, during and after WW I European walnut became impossible to get, and in general pre-war wood is superior to post war wood. On Parkers and Smiths.

My personal preference in guns is the boxlock Parkers and the RBL. Although I love my LCs too!

I don't like the fake sidelocks, and got rid of mine. Nothing wrong with them except they're fake, otherwise they shoot just fine. I had a Fabarms, super gun, but couldn't live with the fake side plates. Same with the CZ sideplate guns.

Setters, quail, and light doubleguns just seem to go together.







ALSO BIG BLUE GROUSE


Sidelocks have a special Class, but for function I prefer a trim boxlock.

I have also been doing some research on this subject and I have come to the conclusion that I would rather have a sidelock. There are plenty of great boxlocks out there and they all seem to work very reliably, however, I think the sidelock is more of the mark of a handcrafted gun.

This is not a perfect analogy, but I sort of look at this like the difference between a quartz watch and one with a mechanical movement. Both get the job done but I prefer the added level of craftsmanship of the mechanical watch. I believe that boxlocks came into existence because they were easier to mass produce because they didn't require as much skilled gunsmithing.

I will never be able to afford a fine handmade English double, but I would be very happy with either a Grulla or an Arrieta.

Or you could look at one of the Spanish guns Lion Country is selling or for me I like the Darne.

28" 12ga 2 1/2" chambers 6# even.





erich

Nice pictures.

One of the things rarely mentioned in the BL/SL debate is that the boxlock was developed as an improvement over the sidelock--which was considered rather primitive, since it was essentially a continuation of the flintlock/percussion gun evolution.

Some folks say sidelocks are capable of nicer trigger pulls, but I've had plenty of boxlocks with fine triggers, particularly Foxes and German guns.

Generally a really nice boxlock can be purchased for less money than a really nice sidelock, but not always. My wife and I have SxS's of all types--boxlocks, boxlocks with backplates, and sidelocks from back-action hammer guns through modern models. They all work, but I tend to go for boxlocks, especially German and Italian, as similar quality can usually be purchased for less than an English gun with the same features. Eileen, however, really likes the way English guns balance for her, so she has a few of those!

It really does come down to whatever trips your trigger--or, in a proper SxS, your triggers.

Nothing like an English double to personify elegance and function. Sidelocks are still a much nicer look, but so are hammers. This is a Webley 2 1/2 inch boxlock gun, engraved, with ejectors made in the early 1900's..

Sidelocks and a sidelever, this Hume, Birmingham gun is another example of the English artisans work...

Shrapnel, those are both beautiful shotguns. After reading yours and JB's posts, I am developing the nagging fear that I am not going to be able to buy just one fine shotgun...