Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Accidental Muzzleloader Death on MSNBC

Anybody see this story in the news?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45738811/ns/us_news-life/#.TvEQyTW0wtE

I don't know if the media is getting this wrong (highly likely) or if this is wishful case solving on the part of the local police, but the "facts" of this case as presented here just don't add up. Anybody here got a muzzleloader that'll shoot a mile and a half?

Rod

I live about a hour north of there and thought the same thing, i know my savage at 2800fps will get out there but i thought the same thing,,,,,just doesnt add up and besides if your going to unload the old fashion way whatever happened to a good backstop or at the least just into the ground!!! sounds fishy!!!!

I thought so as well but I did some searching to find something to either reinforce or disprove their conclusion.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_53/ai_n20512665/

Interesting article. Thanks.

Rod

Very unlucky girl . I feel for her family.

Yes. On the order of 3500-3700 yds actually, so more like 2 miles.

I live in an Amish community about 15/20 miles from there. It is quit the buzz around here as you might think. It was all over the front page of our local paper. I'm a hunter safety instructor and I cut those articles out of the paper and put them in a folder for my hunter safety classes. You'd be surprised at how many news clippings I have in that folder. And most of them are local. It happens. How/why would someone fire a gun into the air to unload it. If you are going to unload the muzzleloader, shoot it into a safe backstop. An this happened late (11ish p.m.)at night. Sounds strange to me, yes. And for this to happen. All the square miles of earth and it hits a girl in the head at over a mile away. What are the chances? 100 Kazillion to one, but it happened. Act of God???? Go figure. I tell my hunter ed. students when an accident with a firearm happens one or more of the safety rules has been broken. Like in this case: Be sure of your target and beyond, never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot, identify your target, etc. Just a shame this had to happen. Gives hunters and gun owners a bad name. Also give the anti-hunters/gun ammunition for bad press too. Just to bad accidents like this happen..

I hate to say it, but if you have a muzzle loader, you have one that will shoot a mile and a half, AT LEAST.

I am shocked at how many totally underestimate the power that firarms have, particularly muzzle loaders.

Do some simple ballistic calcs, and you will be surprised at what you find.

Shooting that far is physics. Hitting an intended target at that range is pure chance in most cases, and apparently hitting an uninteded (person) is chance as well, how very sad and tragic.

Obey the laws of gun safety and none of this happens.

SIMPLE COMMON SENSE APPLIES.... im sorry but he should be prosecuted,,,,,,, he failed to follow simple basics of firearm safety..........KEEP THE MUZZLE POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION!!!!!

I agree. Put him in jail. My buddy always said a muzzleloader won't shoot very far. I showed him the article in today's paper. I told him to look at how far that smoke pole will shoot. A long ways. I just can't believe someone would do something so stupid. I gotta think there is more to it than that. Shooting at 11:30ish p.m. AT NIGHT. What's someone doing out at 11:30ish at night shooting his muzzleloader? And into the air? Maybe he was shooting/poaching a deer and didn't want to admit it. I've got to think there is more to it. We'll see. How STUPID.

doubt he was poaching unless he hit her alot closer than they are saying, showed this to my 10 year old as well and explained to em how far that bullet travels.....his reply was" why didnt he shoot it into the ground dad?" maybe it was a fluke and i feel for the family deeply, but it just doesnt add up to me...........

bottom line.....as a gun owner he failed in every respect to respect and show safety for the gift of owning a firearm!

Yes, that says it all. Even a 10 year old knows better. Maybe he was shooting at a deer on the horizon? Who knows. Should charge him with manslaughter.....

+1 or at least a felony ad yank his gun rights for quite a few years! im sorry ive been around guns most of my life and even when i was young and stupd i would never consider firing in the air................ as basic as it gets!

agreed
if i recall correctly doesn�t the 1853 Enfield have a max range of 2000 yards thus well over a mile .
not to also mention that rifles like the Whitworth and Medford rifles have shown very good accuracy at 2000 yards +

Sadly today all to many folks hold the opinion that muzzle loading guns , be they modern or traditional , just are not as capable as a center fire . Thus they just don�t view them with the same safety as they should until something like this happens

and apparently from what i understand from a relative that lives in that area , it was another amish who was the one that unloaded the gun, so as far as amish go at least around here they mostly have the latest greatest firearms sooo.... it was probably a inline so my question is isnt it easier in todays age to just remove the breech plug and push out the load as opposed to firing it and cleaning it? either way it sounds fishy and he should be charged with something......just complete stupidity nothing less.....this was negligence not a accident!!

When deer hunting shotgun only laws were created the common projectile of the day was a Forster Slug or buckshot. If one is interested in keeping max range of hunting arms short they should return to that standard and limit muzzle loaders to round balls. Comparing state of the art muzzle loaders with a .30-06 is a meaningless exercise that can only be driven by underlying agendas.

The stupidity of some folks leaves me speechless from time to time...

In Mass, an off duty State Trooper just shot a woman with a muzzle loader a couple days ago. She was walking 2 dogs and the guy thought she was a deer and shot her in the stomach. No charges filed. More will come out on this one.


A guy that was a member of my rod and gun club was shot and killed during shotgun season a week ago. I posted on that on the campfire forum.

I find it extremely difficult to believe my .50 caliber percussion cap rifle will shoot a round, patched, 177 grain rifle ball 1� miles and still have sufficient force to kill someone.

With a muzzle velocity of 1700-1800 fps and a ballistic coefficient of just .068, I ran such a round through a ballistics program and found the rifle ball hit the ground in less than 500 yards if fired with the barrel parallel to the ground... and at the time the rifle ball hit the ground, it's velocity was down to just a few hundred feet-per-second, as I recall.

I find it unbelievable that a round, patched lead rifle ball would travel 2640 yards (1� miles), even if shot at the "perfect" angle, and still have sufficient force to injure someone.

I admit I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Regardless, it is a tragic event and I have great sympathy for the girl's family and loved ones.

That said, I seriously doubt that it was that fella's muzzle loading rifle that did the "dirty deed".


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

i dont recall reading anywhere that the projectile was a PRB .
for that mater that it was sidelock or modern .
but again if you look at the max range of the 1853 Endfield , its over a mile .
same with the Tryon and Rifles as well as many others that are sidelock

as to how many footlbs it takes to kill a human .
if i hit you in the head with a hammer that produces less then 80 ftlbs , care to place a bet that it would most likly kill you ?

Captchee...

I don't disagree with you one bit in what you believe... because what you say is true, but I find it extremely difficult to believe it was a muzzle loader fired from a mile and a half away that killed the girl.

Regardless, it is sadly tragic...!

BTW... if you're gonna try to hit me in the head with a hammer, I hope you've got good body armor 'cause yer gonna be "wearin' " several rounds of .45 ACP hollow-points if you raise that hammer since I don't "cotton" to being hit in the head with a hammer.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.