Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Medical care in US vs Canada

John G...

I'm not quarreling with you here, but you've cited some selected examples that show good results. If I chose from my own professional cases in Canada up to 1997, I could come up with 6 or 8 examples that totally contradict your experience.

There is good and bad in every system. When Tommy Douglas and his NDP government instituted the first provincial health plan in Saskatchewan in whenever-it-was... 1957? 1958? ... he started something good. It was never meant to become the elephant that ate the entire garden. But successive socialist governments kept trying to one-up the last guy until Canada ended up with a public health care system that was the ONLY system, and the Canada Health Act outlawed the private sector, which was the only thing making the public system sustainable. We (now, YOU) have been reeling from the aftereffects of that Liberal Jean Chretien lunacy ever since.

One of the things that makes it work in Canada is the willingness of people like doctors to be abused. Because we were raised as dutiful young Canadians who don't want to ever rock the boat, Canadian doctors were willing to be the best and brightest and work the hardest, yet get paid like middle managers. Those days are slipping away. The best and brightest are going into other fields, and the people going into medicine are more and more the plodders, the do-gooders without much ability. You're reaping a whirlwind already that you haven't even heard a hint of.

The United States health system is in a real mess. It's way to expensive and it's way too disorganized, but at least in the US doctors aren't penalized for being smarter and harder-working than the average joe. At least not AS penalized, anyway. So in the US, people still have a chance to make a good living in medicine after sacrificing 9 to 15 years of their earning years in education while incurring obscenely high levels of debt.

You can't have medical care of any value if you don't have good doctors. And you can't have good doctors if your government keeps saying that the medical profession is composed of evil and greedy people out to destroy the system for the rest of us, as Canadian governments have been saying for 5 decades.

The US needs to go for a true 2-tier system, and I predict it will, provided Obamacare gets the axe. I think the fundamental saving grace in this transition will be the dedication and excellence of American doctors.

John G, again, I mean no quarrel, but I think you're cherry-picking here again.

Surgical time in all Canadian hospitals is rationed by government planners. In areas where surgical demand is high and number of surgeons is low, some surgeons will be busier than the average, but surgeons are almost always limited in their access to the OR, or "elective" surgeries, which are in many cases not "elective" at all... they're operations people really, really need. The only exception to this limitation is when surgeons are on-call for the hospital.

But in most centers, what passes for a "busy" surgeon in Canada would be the laziest surgeon in a U.S. community hospital.

OMG! Is that YOU, Hawkeye?!?!?

While trying to sort out the source of extreme arm/shoulder/neck pain I had three MRI appointments through two different doctors in four days - all outpatient. To make a long story short it turned out to be a crunched cervical disk.

BC brain seems curiously quiet.

He's been waiting in line at the clinic.

I have been hospitalized MANY times in my life. A few times for things that would have killed me - if they had not been treated promptly and correctly.

Our system has always treated me very well. Same with my parents, and my kids, my relatives and my friends.

Like I said before - we Canadians who live with our healthcare system every day of our lives - and with all the people we know - generally want to keep it.

Has every American on this forum noticed that not one single Canadian - even those on this admittedly right-of-center forum - has spoken out against having our publicly funded system?

The idea that we are brainwashed, ignorant or just plain stupid - is not worth replying to.

American Republicans seemingly just KNOW - better than we Canadians do - about our medical system - and they tell us all bad it's supposed to be.

When you face that level of debate - where foreigners who simply READ reports about our system - claim to better understand how it - than those of us who have lived with it - every day of our lives - there's not much one can say.

So you do disagree with DocRocket's experiences. I do expect the kings of old were thankful for being able to afford drs with leeches.

BCBrian,

I was born and reside in BC. I've worked, filed taxes, and received healthcare in both countries.

How about this? I understand you teach public high school.

Tomorrow, ask each of your classes by show of hands, without preamble or discussion, "is healthcare in Canada free?"

Report to us what the numbers are. I will readily take back comments I have made regarding Canadians being brainwashed into believing that healthcare is free.

Most American Dr's hate the idea of having their wages regulated.

They fought it tooth and nail up here too - when the idea of public health-care was first proposed. Dr.s can earn more in America - no one would debate that Dr.s can earn more in a "for-profit" health-care system than they can in a system designed to help care for every citizen.

It's hard to get any man to agree to anything that'll hit him in the pocketbook.

Actually EVERY single Gr.11 student I teach knows that our "publicly-funded" healthcare system - is funded with taxes.

NOTHING a government provides - is "free".

Just because we are Canadian - doesn't mean we're all stupid up here you know...

All men should dislike their wages being regulated. This is of course assumes you don't wear gray PJ's to work.

That post just proves my statement about North Koreans with internet.

Touch�

No point me continuing.

You foreigners must know more about our system that we Canadians do - I guess.

No point trying to win a debate when that's what's happening.

I never said Canadians were stupid, I said they were brainwashed.

Come on, ask your students tomorrow and prove me wrong. It will take 15 seconds per class. Less time than it takes to respond to these threads.

As part of their education - like I said - they ALL know that NOTHING a government provides - is "free".

They ALL understand - our system is PUBLICLY-FUNDED.

It's actually what we call it up here in Canada.

"PUBLICLY FUNDED HEALTHCARE."

We Canadians aren't STUPID - and we aren't BRAINWASHED.

I won't continue to debate with people who suggest that about my fellow Canadians. There simply is no point.

I don't need to know where Canada is to know a communistic statement when I read one.

It is hard for me to accept the fact that you think the brightest kids will go through he'll and expense to become drs for the income you make. I have many friends here who are drs with kids in college with 4.0s and only one I know of is going to go to in the medical field, and that as a dentist. Sorry Steel, this was BC.

not sure i can like the idea of the lowest bidder cracking open my chest or working on my daughters knee.....regulated wages tend to have a horrible reaction on effeciency.....if .gov says you can only earn X amount then yah only tend to work as hard as you think your worth at X amount.....

more interested in the doc dumping his own money into learning more and in return is gonna charge me more for the experience he has gained....seems like a hell of a good trade to me....

... another case of "I-don't-know-anything-about-it-but-let-me-tell-you-how-much-I-hate-it."

...and who's brainwashed???

I'm done with this thread. It's like trying to reason with someone who's never been in the ocean before trying to tell me it isn't salty.