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#5870786 - 12/02/11 02:24 AM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: VAnimrod]
Win_94 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: VAnimrod
written by Carl T. Bogus (such an appropriate name)


The OP was funny enough, but the dudes name is icing on the cake!

You can't make this stuff up... well, you know what I mean. :P
_________________________
If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. If I don't reply further, I'm satisfied with my side of the "debate."

...nuff said.

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#5881725 - 12/04/11 06:57 PM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: StubbleDuck]
crew_chief Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/14/11
Posts: 8
I have to ring in and ask if this foolish person has ever read the Federalist papers. I guess the answer would be a resounding no. Many times the founding fathers spoke on the subject of guns and rights of "the people", all of which was stated numerous times in the Bill of Rights.

Many times people who thank they know what the hell they are talking get it wrong simply because they read only what they want to and throw the rest in the damn garbage simply because it does not fit their Socialist agenda.

Everyone please stand up for what you believe is right and vote these idiots out.

Shoot often, shoot safely and share our sport

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#6000101 - 01/04/12 10:21 AM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: crew_chief]
22WRF Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 3285
The way to attack these types of writings is not to call the writers various names and accuse them of different agendas. The better way is more scholarly work.

But regardless, nobody alive today was alive back then. People can only form perceptions of the truth about the 2nd ammendment, rather than the truth itself.

And perceptions are always going to be biased on both sides.

The battle of the 2nd ammendment will rage on for time immomorial. And for all time it will be "interpreted" for today's use based on today's needs, just like the other ammendments.

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#6016831 - 01/08/12 12:25 PM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: StubbleDuck]
Rubeus_Hagrid Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 164
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Bogus is boggus. Another libtard following in the footsteps of Michael Bellesiles and Michael Moore...oops, sorry, rather "those who shall not be named."



Edited by Rubeus_Hagrid (01/08/12 12:33 PM)
_________________________
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

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#6016868 - 01/08/12 12:33 PM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: 22WRF]
Rubeus_Hagrid Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 164
Loc: St. Louis, MO
[it will be "interpreted" for today's use based on today's needs, just like the other ammendments. [/quote]

Justice Scalia makes it clear in Heller that the Constitution is to be interpreted in terms of the meaning of the words as used in common parlance at the time the particular provision was adopted. I'd have to reread the decision, but I don't think the dissenters fought him too hard on this. Unfortunately, this won't stop the meaningless inquiries into "the founders' intent" or "the living Constitution."

The scariest part is Heller was decided by one vote...by an unelected judge.
_________________________
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

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#6070776 - 01/20/12 05:17 PM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: StubbleDuck]
Crockettnj Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 2892
My son is 5. I think he will be the last generation to know of 2A rights for "the people". New SCOTUS members will soft land right into a new interpretation, likley something to do with national guard.

You have more faith in the electorate?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Archerhunter

Quit giving in inch by inch then looking back to lament the mile behind ya and wonder how to preserve those few feet left in front of ya. They'll never stop until they're stopped. That's a fact.

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#6300762 - 03/16/12 09:21 PM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: StubbleDuck]
tromba Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/16/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Forest, VA
I think the 2nd Amendment is clear as it was written over 2 centuries ago. The 2nd Amendment, as the rest of the Constitution, needs to be interpreted to meet the needs of the current society. The Founding Fathers were limited to the language and mindset of the current day and intentionally wrote certain ambiguities into the text knowing this. Thomas Jefferson, as many of the Founding Fathers, were Deists. They did not adhere to the strict writings of any populist or organized group but they knew that the vast majority of new Americans did. They had to construct a document that would both sell to the current population and live for many years. Very smart these guys. I think that this kind of discourse is EXACTLY what they wanted. I do not have a Ph.D. and am not a legal scholar but I will argue this point with anyone. And have.

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#6300771 - 03/16/12 09:27 PM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: tromba]
tromba Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/16/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Forest, VA
One point to be made. The most intelligent thing the Constitutional writers did was to make arrangements for Amendments.

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#6347292 - 03/29/12 04:38 AM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: tromba]
saj Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 449


"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788


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"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves "
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.


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"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."


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" the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights


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"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; "
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"


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The Founding Fathers on Arms
"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States


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"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine


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"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788


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"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot


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"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot


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"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States


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"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.


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"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8


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The Founding Fathers on Maintaining Freedom
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States


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"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. "
Noah Webster
American Lexicographer


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"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
Edmund Burke
British Statesman, 1784


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"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson
to James Madison


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"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin
American Statesman

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#6347345 - 03/29/12 05:02 AM Re: The Hidden History of the Second Amendment [Re: saj]
LN2T Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/10
Posts: 11
Loc: Charlotte NC
Some new to me some old.. all prophetic and will be printed and put on the wall of my boys homeschool classroom. Lord knows my boys would NOT see many if any at any public school in this nation. Why is it that these principals seem oh so simple??? Might it be because they are?

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