Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Simple Question About Elmer Keith.

I've read a fair amount of Keith's writings, but I've never seemed to find a reason for his strong focus on souping up the 44 Special. Why didn't he show a similar interest in the 45 Colt? Did he consider the 44 more under loaded, or was it due to the guns and components. I believe he did blow up some single action 45s.

More than likely it had a lot to do with the structural weakness of the old 45 Colt balloon head cases and the revolvers it was chambered for not having sufficient strength for higher psi loads. 45 Colt cases aren't made that way now but were still BP config back when EK was working up hot 44 loads for the Triplelock SW revolvers. They would handle higher pressure loads better than SAA's Colts. My 2 cts worth Magnum Man

It's the thicker sidewall on the SA Colt due to the smaller .44 chamber diameter as compared to the .45 Colt.

Yes I wondered if the balloon head case was the reason. When did the 45 Colt cases begin being manufactured with solid heads. Must have been relatively late?

He preferred the .44 Special because of the thicker cylinder walls on .44 revolvers vs. .45's.

The .44 Special also had a balloon head case at the time Keith was working to develop heavy loads. In fact, his load for balloon head cases was heavier than for solid web cases. He used 18.5 grs. of 2400 with a 250 gr. KSWC in the balloon head .44 Spl. cases and decreased that to 17.5 grs. in solid head cases, figuring that the pressures were about the same due to the reduced volume of the SH cases.

I tried his load in solid head cases back in the 60's when I started handloading and it was HOT. I shot 50 or so of them and decided that 7.5 grs. of Unique made me feel more "Special".

As several have said, the primary reason was the thicker cylinder walls of the Special over the bolt cuts. However, in some of his early American Rifleman articles of the late 20's and early 30's, EK also mentions that tighter tolerances on the chamber mouth and barrel throat dimensions on the Special were more compatible with hot loads as compared to the .45(for instance some .45's had chamber mouths of .457 to .458 and bore diameters of .450), as well as loading tools of the period having more consistent dimensions. The latter two reasons had contributed to some of his .45 blow-ups, which he explains.

He never did change his opinion that if limited to factory loads, he'd pick the .45 over the .44 every time.

Greg Perry

First paragraph pretty much covers it.

http://www.sixguns.com/range/elmer6.htm

this is the explination I read.

Had he had access to modern , larger frame (and cylinder) guns, the cartridge might be the 45 Magnum!

He told me it was the balloon head case.

I seem to remember reading him where he stated both reasons, case construction and pistol construction.

I've heard Keith called reckless for his blowing guns up, and his bullet designs deemed "inferior," but when one considers how much he contributed to his craft, and the conditions he worked under, he amazes me. He had virtually no technology to test his loads except whether the guns would stand up to the loads. I'll bet he cast a lot of bullets from lead melted on a wood stove, under kerosene or gas lamp light. He's an interesting read!

Mr. Bowen's book stated that after blowing up many SAA he Elmer Keith switched to the S&W Triple Lock's do to the increased strength of the action and the better cases.


ddj

Yup. His book "Sixguns and Their Cartridges" included a photo of him doing just that. With his hat on.

Keith was the kind of man who would shoot a running, unwounded deer with a .32-20 pistol - and kill it. Different times, different rules.

In "Hell, I Was There!" he describes his every day after-supper routine as a young man. While Ma cleaned up the dishes, he'd cast bullets and reload ammunition. He sometimes NEEDED to cast bullets and load ammo at night, otherwise he'd have nothing to shoot the next day!

Elmer Keith was a shootin' fool. And all of us who cast and load our own ammo, or even those of us who shoot heavy duty factory ammo, owe an incalculable debt to him.

I thought he blew up an SAA with a hotloaded .45 Colt using unsized .45/70 slugs...and he used balloon head cases in his .44 Specials...and there was more steel around a .44 Special Chamber than a .45 Colt Chamber.

That's correct; Keith wrote about blowing up a Colt SAA using 300gr bullets cast from a 45/70 mould and sized down to fit in the SAA's chamber. He wasn't injured, but the incident did convince him to focus his efforts in developing heavy loads on the 44spl.

Speaking of Keith...

Anyone happen to know where to pick up any copies of his books that wouldn't cost a man a arm and leg?

Keep an eye on www.powells.com Really good book store here in Portland, Or. I've bought most of my Keith books through them; prices aren't cheap, but they are fair. A post here in the classifieds might get you some good deals too.

Thanks for the discussion, I get the picture. The large N-Frame smiths allowed more metal around the chambers. I would expect there were balloon head cases in both the 45 Colt and 44 special, although components could have also had some bearing.

Regarding the books; I have Keith's autobiography, however I believe he later came out with "Hell, I Was There". He, for some reason, did not like the autobiography. Inquiring minds want to know?