Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Remington 700 unintentional firing - need info

Let�s take a look at some of the objections:

"It�s an anti-gun conspiracy / CNBC is biased."

Yes, CNBC is biased, and their story contains slanted perspectives and misleading information. What did you expect? However, just because the presentation is biased doesn�t necessarily mean that the core issue isn�t true.

"It must be caused by people fiddling with their trigger adjustments."

No doubt some of the problems are indeed due to improper adjustments. However there are lots of rifles that have adjustable triggers that don�t have anywhere near as many complaints. Something else is going on.

So let's take a look at what it is:

Here's the Remington 700 trigger cocked:



The Remington 700 trigger is a bit unusual in that it uses an extra piece, the trigger connector, to refine the trigger pull. The tiny red area is the engagement between the connector and the sear.

When the trigger is pulled, the connector goes forward and returns to this position:


For this trigger to operate safely it is essential that when the rifle is cocked the trigger connector return 100% to the proper position, pushed there by only the light weight trigger spring.

See the red area between the trigger shoe and the trigger connector when the rifle is uncocked? That's the problem area. Any tiny speck of dirt, rust, ice or other material that gets in there will prevent the connector from engaging the sear properly. This can result in the safety keeping the sear from falling instead of the trigger connector. When the safety is released, the gun fires.

With all this in mind, let's take a look at a couple more objections:

�I�ve owned a Remington 700 for forty years and fired thousands of rounds and never had a problem.�

Good for you. This problem doesn�t happen very often, simply because it�s fairly difficult for stuff to work its way into the proper area of the trigger. But this is not a question of a few defective guns; it�s a design weakness that could affect any of the millions of guns with this trigger. If you haven�t had a problem, it�s because nothing has worked its way into your trigger.

Yet.

"This only happens on dirty or neglected guns."

This is more likely to happen on a dirty or neglected gun. However, a grass seed or a bit of pine needle could make this happen on an otherwise pristine gun. "No one would have been hurt if they followed The Rules of Gun Safety."

True enough. You should always treat your gun as though it could go off at any moment. That doesn't excuse making a rifle that actually does it.


Serious discussion welcomed. Juvenile name calling will be cheerfully ignored.

So you accept Belk's theory of debris... Yet he admitted under oath he had never seen it happen... Remember, Belk is the guru...

So, please explain the course a piece of debris as large as a grass seed would take to get betwixt connector and trigger body. There is no room at the sear and less at the bottom... otherwise it is full width of the housing.

Now, if that "weak" trigger weight spring cannot move just the connector back into place how do you expect it to move the entire trigger because that is the "fix" so many use for the "problem."

The area of contact between the connector and the sear is so small that anything - rust, old grease, ice, grit - can cause it to fail.

natman
You gave two examples of debris you thought could possibly make it into the space between connector and trigger. Both are significantly larger than the available openings.

A build-up of grease and such is possible, but when you use impossible things to describe the potential problem it weighs heavy on your argument...

There are a lot of other holes in your argument as well...

CCCC: The remingtons firing when slamming the butt down, or flipping off the safety is very real. This is well documented.

You make the big dramatic ploy something will surely get into your trigger someday... I am thinking mine will be fairly safe due to minor routine maintenence... and mine are the automatically suspect kind because all have new trigger weight springs and have not been factory-adjusted.

Your argument about the grass seed or pine needle noted it could happen on an "otherwise Prisitine gun"... And I call bullshit on that.

You also claim if you have not had a problem it is because nothing has worked its way into the trigger... but that is not what the evidence has shown. Evidence has shown Bubba is the number one culprit, fingers in the trigger guard or on the trigger when the gun goes off is right in there...

I also love the usual argument that the trigger housing traps debris inside... without getting to the concept it also keeps it out. No trigger is perfect and all can be tricked to fail. And I am not suggesting you used the claim about the trigger housing trapping junk.

As I said in the original post, Bubba-ing and trigger mishandling are just as possible on other rifles as on Walker triggered Remingtons. And yet reports of unintended discharges are far more common on Remingtons than any other rifle I can think of.

Why do you think that is?

natman.....How many Remingtons that were untampered with have you personally witnessed discharging without a finger on the trigger?

Cause there are more than 5 million of them made.

natman, in your illustration of the "uncocked" trigger, you depict a gap, shown in red, between the connector and the trigger lever. That gap is only present for a split second, from the moment the sear drops, to the minute the finger is removed from the trigger lever, at which point, on a properly maintained and adjusted trigger, the trigger lever rotates forward, due to spring tension against the connector, thereby closing the gap, or red area.

Feel free to copy the illustrations and show how this works, because what your saying doesn't make sense to me as written. There's no spring pushing the top of trigger shoe forward in the manner you describe, although there is one pushing the connector towards the back.

Feel free to copy the illustrations and show how this works, because what your saying doesn't make sense to me as written. There's no spring pushing the top of trigger shoe forward in the manner you describe, although there is one pushing the connector towards the back.

First, let me answer your question: exactly none.

Now let me ask you a question: What possible difference does it make?

Unlike some internet posters, I am perfectly capable of analyzing data outside my personal experience and coming to a rational conclusion. I've never slept with Liv Tyler, but I expect it would be fun, my lack of personal experience not withstanding.

Seriously? If you are this far away from understanding the Walker Trigger I will leave you with your delusions.