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#6285160 - 03/13/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Lockhart]
CRS Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2417
Loc: Black Hills of Dakota
excellent information
_________________________
Arcus Venator

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RV 728 BP
#6285356 - 03/13/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
oregontripper Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Where Californians Move!
Nice work - big thanks for putting this together! It has an unusually pleasant tone.... Cheers! laugh
_________________________
"There's a great big buck - shoot'm in the head!" Dad '80

I reserve the right to refuse!

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#6285908 - 03/13/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: oregontripper]
hekin Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 531
Loc: Alaska
Good stuff....I think you should add some language about what a seller should provide a buyer in terms of information. Address, serial number of weapon, etc??? What is a reasonable expectation of information for a seller to receive from the buyer.

What method of payment is reasonable that provides some sort of protection for both buyer and seller. USPS Money Order? Cashier Check? ???

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#6286035 - 03/13/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: hekin]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: hekin
Good stuff....I think you should add some language about what a seller should provide a buyer in terms of information. Address, serial number of weapon, etc??? What is a reasonable expectation of information for a seller to receive from the buyer.

What method of payment is reasonable that provides some sort of protection for both buyer and seller. USPS Money Order? Cashier Check? ???
Etiquette and terms are for the two parties to resolve. My information focuses on compliance with the '68 GCA only.
_________________________
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

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#6286280 - 03/13/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
hekin Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 531
Loc: Alaska
Ok, but perhaps a new thread on reasonable expectations would be helpful. Sort of guard rails for folks to bounce between. There has to be some standard must haves and a the nice haves can be listed and debated between parties..

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#6286415 - 03/13/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
10ring1 Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 1029
Loc: Pa, USA
Very informative and well written. Thank you Bricktop
_________________________
Live and die by the Browning...

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#6287643 - 03/13/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: 10ring1]
bigfish9684 Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 893
Loc: Kirkland, WA
+1 to the above, thanks.
_________________________
Originally Posted By calikooknic
Originally Posted By tzone
Any beaver will tell you that no gun is big enough.


Just try a Texas heart shot, they will be much more impressed with the size of your gun!

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#6287689 - 03/13/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: AFTERUM]
tack Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 895
Loc: Missouri
Brilliant written opus.

Tack

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#6289151 - 03/14/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
smithrjd Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 2217
Bricktop, been alot of pissing and moaning about this subject.
Thank You for a very informative post on the regs and what is correct and what is BS.

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#6291093 - 03/14/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: smithrjd]
deflave Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 43145
Loc: Havre, Montana
Rick should lock it so it doesn't become a 15 page abortion that guys have to wade through to find the pertinent information.

Should be a BT only thread.

Just a thought.

Travis

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#6292392 - 03/15/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: deflave]
slg888 Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 9489
Loc: Knoxville,TN
Originally Posted By: deflave
Rick should lock it so it doesn't become a 15 page abortion that guys have to wade through to find the pertinent information.

Should be a BT only thread.

Just a thought.

Travis
+1, Rick should delete the replies including mine and let Bricktop have his own sticky...he deserves it!

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#6293420 - 03/15/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: slg888]
GunGeezer Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/09/11
Posts: 286
Loc: N CA
Originally Posted By: slg888
Originally Posted By: deflave
Rick should lock it so it doesn't become a 15 page abortion that guys have to wade through to find the pertinent information.

Should be a BT only thread.

Just a thought.

Travis
+1, Rick should delete the replies including mine and let Bricktop have his own sticky...he deserves it!

++ Like they said.
_________________________
If things were as obvious as they initially appear . . . then men would be riding horseback sidesaddle . . . and not women. - Will Rogers

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#6294680 - 03/15/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
GeoW Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 11690
Loc: Land of Cotton
New Bricktop...New image?
smile


_________________________
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson


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#6300014 - 03/17/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: GeoW]
bigwhoop Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 14012
Loc: Land of loons
Bricktop is redeeming himself in my book. Now its the USPS's turn!
_________________________
Your days are numbered - suckers!

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#6300810 - 03/17/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
JD1951 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/09
Posts: 248



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Firearms Shipping Guide


(last updated on 10/25/2010)
Firearms Shipping Guide



Overview
This page provides information about Federal Laws, step that must be followed, and notes on using specific shippers when shipping firearms. This page is oriented toward the seller of an item. If you need information about how to buy a firearm through GunBroker.com, please refer to our Buyer's Tutorial.

This page contains information oriented toward persons shipping firearms within the United States. For sellers located outside the United States, please see our

Import / Export page.

Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL) only. The recipient must have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

'Antique' firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof. The exact ATF definition of an antique firearm is:
Antique firearm. (a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica (1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.



Knives, air guns, accessories, and most gun parts need not be shipped to an FFL holder. We say most gun parts because each firearm contains at least one part that the ATF considers a firearm. This part is typically the part that contains the serial number. This part must be treated as a complete firearm when shipping the item.

Ammunition must be clearly identified as 'Small Arms Ammunition' on the outside of the box. Some shippers treat ammunition as dangerous or hazardous materials.

The section of the US Code that governs modern firearms is called Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition (CFA). This code is available online at:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_09/27cfr478_09.html

When in doubt, we suggest arranging for transfer through a licensed dealer. Violation of the CFA is a felony and penalties for violation of it are severe.

Federal and State Law Resources
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) has a very comprehensive site containing information about the various Federal and state laws regulating firearms. Please refer to the ATF information for legal questions regarding firearms.
ATF Home page:

http://www.atf.gov
ATF Compilation of the various state laws: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5.pdf
ATF Firearms Division Main Page: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/

Shipment by Unlicensed Persons
Any shipper who does not have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be an 'unlicensed person'. This section contains information on how unlicensed persons can ship firearms. If you have an FFL, please skip to the next section for shipping suggestions.

The most important thing to know is that you must only ship guns to a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, he will have to make arrangements to ship the item to a dealer in his state.

Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.

Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: An unlicensed person can ship a rifle or shotgun by US Mail. Unlicensed persons cannot ship a handgun by US Mail. Postal regulations allow the Post Office to open your package for inspection. Ammunition cannot be shipped by US Mail. You can search the

US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx Express: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.

FedEx Ground:

FedEx Ground will transport and deliver firearms (excluding handguns) as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition. Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.

Shipment by Licensed Persons
Any shipper who has a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be a 'licensed person'. This section contains information on how licensed persons can ship firearms. If you do not have an FFL, please see the previous section of this page for shipping instructions.

Since licensed persons are responsible for knowing the law, we are going to assume that you already understand the CGA and know the applicable Federal, state, and local laws.

Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: Licensed persons can ship a rifle, shotguns, or handguns by US Mail. In fact, we suggest that you use the USPS as it is now the most cost-effective way to ship a handgun. To ship a rifle or shotgun, you need only inform the Post Office that the package contains a firearm. A licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer can ship a handgun via the US Post Office if the licensed dealer fills out a

US Post Office Form PS 1508 and files it with the local Post Office branch where the handgun is to be shipped. You can search the US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx Express: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition.

Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.

Notes on USPS Firearm Regulations
We recommend that you read the Post Office regulations on

Other Restricted or Nonmailable Matter before shipping a firearm through the US Mail.

The following info comes from the USPS Regulation DMM Issue 54, January 10, 1999, section C-024

Page C-39, section 3.0, Rifles and Shotguns: "Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act or 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated there under, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e."

Page C-39, section 6.0, PROHIBITED PARCEL MARKING: "For any parcel containing a firearm or a ballistic or switchblade knife, any marking that indicates the contents is not permitted on the outside wrapper or container."

The following pertains only to licensed dealers shipping handguns:

Page C-37, section 1.3, Authorized Persons: "Subject to 1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government......."

Page C-38, section 1.5, Manufacturers and Dealers: "Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts."

Page C-38, section 1.6, Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers: "A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major components thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms."



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#6300815 - 03/17/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: JD1951]
JD1951 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/09
Posts: 248
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

From what I understand from this is in shipping a handgun thru UPS or Fedex it's required by law to notifiy UPS or Fedex that it's a handgun.


Edited by JD1951 (03/17/12)

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#6300821 - 03/17/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: bigwhoop]
claybreaker Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 499
Loc: E. TN
Thanks Brick, good job, the fire has needed this for a while.

Claybreaker
_________________________
"...buzzards gota eat same as worms" Josey Wales
NRA lifer
Hunting is Conservation

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#6301198 - 03/17/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: JD1951]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: JD1951
From what I understand from this is in shipping a handgun thru UPS or Fedex it's required by law to notifiy UPS or Fedex that it's a handgun.
Absolutely WRONG. Look at the sections of the '68 GCA referenced in your quote:

§ 922 Unlawful acts.

(a)
It shall be unlawful—

(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—

(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm."

"§ 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a)
No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.

(b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm."

Simply stated, it says this:

"It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered...to persons other than...licensed dealers...any package...in which there is any firearm...without written notice to the carrier that such firearm...is being...shipped..."

The FAQs that people keep using for reference on the BATFE's website are WRONG and do not qualify as a legally-binding determination on behalf of the BATFE or any other government entity. A written request to the BATFE's legal department -- this is an important distinction -- will produce a letter in reply on official BATFE letterhead stating that they are aware that the FAQs are WRONG as well as reaffirming what I've posted.

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives cannot respond to e-mail inquiries relating to technical, policy and/or legal questions. Inquiries of this nature can only be addressed through a letter outlining your questions to the following address:

"Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Office of Public and Governmental Affairs

99 New York Avenue, NE, Room 5S 144
Washington, DC 20226 USA

You will receive a written response to your inquiry."

http://www.atf.gov/contact/

I put all of this together to clear away the mountain of CRAP people keep referencing and repeating. You need to move past that.
_________________________
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

Top
#6304919 - 03/18/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
vapodog Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1780
Loc: Nebraska
There's more baloney floating around about firearms shipping than one can pile in a day.....IMO Bricktop knows his stuff and I'd take his word on it over anyone else!

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#6308687 - 03/19/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
billyzink Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 230
Loc: Minnesota
Anyone know what the rules would be to ship a Remington 700 muzzleloader action from MN to IL. Trigger included with action but no firing pin?

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#6310491 - 03/20/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: billyzink]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: billyzink
Anyone know what the rules would be to ship a Remington 700 muzzleloader action from MN to IL. Trigger included with action but no firing pin?
The '68 GCA defines a firearm as follows:

"§ 921 Definitions.

(a)
As used in this chapter—

(3) The term "firearm" means (A)any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Notice there's no exclusion for firing pin removal nor is a firing pin included in the definition of a firearm. That bullshit old wives' tale needs to STOP.

Illinois law goes further:

"65/1.1. Definitions For purposes of this Act:

'Firearm' means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or BB gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

(2) any device used exclusively for signaling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;

(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and

(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

"'Firearm' means any device...designed to expel a projectile...by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas...excluding...an antique firearm...the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-2011/atf-p-5300-5-illinois-2011.pdf

Federal law provides exempts muzzleloaders from the '68 GCA, while Illinois law leaves the door open for a state police bureaucrat to arbitrarily define them as firearms.

A basic Google search for "Illinois State Police" yields this:

"Do I need a valid FOID card for a muzzleloader or blackpowder gun?

Yes. In Illinois, muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns are considered firearms."

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Shipment of a muzzleloader to Illinois would need to be received by a federal firearms licensee as on any other Title I weapon.
_________________________
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

Top
#6311701 - 03/20/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
billyzink Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 230
Loc: Minnesota
If I SHIP THE TRIGGER AND ACTION SEPERATLY WOULD I BE LEGAL?
Originally Posted By: Bricktop
Originally Posted By: billyzink
Anyone know what the rules would be to ship a Remington 700 muzzleloader action from MN to IL. Trigger included with action but no firing pin?
The '68 GCA defines a firearm as follows:

"§ 921 Definitions.

(a)
As used in this chapter—

(3) The term "firearm" means (A)any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Notice there's no exclusion for firing pin removal nor is a firing pin included in the definition of a firearm. That bullshit old wives' tale needs to STOP.

Illinois law goes further:

"65/1.1. Definitions For purposes of this Act:

'Firearm' means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or BB gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

(2) any device used exclusively for signaling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;

(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and

(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

"'Firearm' means any device...designed to expel a projectile...by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas...excluding...an antique firearm...the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-2011/atf-p-5300-5-illinois-2011.pdf

Federal law provides exempts muzzleloaders from the '68 GCA, while Illinois law leaves the door open for a state police bureaucrat to arbitrarily define them as firearms.

A basic Google search for "Illinois State Police" yields this:

"Do I need a valid FOID card for a muzzleloader or blackpowder gun?

Yes. In Illinois, muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns are considered firearms."

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Shipment of a muzzleloader to Illinois would need to be received by a federal firearms licensee as on any other Title I weapon.

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#6311946 - 03/20/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: billyzink]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: billyzink
If I SHIP THE TRIGGER AND ACTION SEPERATLY WOULD I BE LEGAL?
Originally Posted By: Bricktop
Originally Posted By: billyzink
Anyone know what the rules would be to ship a Remington 700 muzzleloader action from MN to IL. Trigger included with action but no firing pin?
The '68 GCA defines a firearm as follows:

"§ 921 Definitions.

(a)
As used in this chapter—

(3) The term "firearm" means (A)any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Notice there's no exclusion for firing pin removal nor is a firing pin included in the definition of a firearm. That bullshit old wives' tale needs to STOP.

Illinois law goes further:

"65/1.1. Definitions For purposes of this Act:

'Firearm' means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or BB gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

(2) any device used exclusively for signaling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;

(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and

(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

"'Firearm' means any device...designed to expel a projectile...by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas...excluding...an antique firearm...the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-2011/atf-p-5300-5-illinois-2011.pdf

Federal law provides exempts muzzleloaders from the '68 GCA, while Illinois law leaves the door open for a state police bureaucrat to arbitrarily define them as firearms.

A basic Google search for "Illinois State Police" yields this:

"Do I need a valid FOID card for a muzzleloader or blackpowder gun?

Yes. In Illinois, muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns are considered firearms."

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Shipment of a muzzleloader to Illinois would need to be received by a federal firearms licensee as on any other Title I weapon.
I'm sorry, but are you F*CKING SERIOUS? You didn't understand a damned thing that was posted in response to your question, did you?

I'm going to answer AGAIN and I'm going to ask you to NOT respond in order to not pollute this thread any further.

UNDER FEDERAL LAW A FIREARM IS DEFINED AS ANY WEAPON CAPABLE OF EXPELLING A PROJECTILE AS WELL AS THE THE FRAME OR RECEIVER OF THE WEAPON -- MEANING THE ACTION.

FEDERAL LAW EXEMPTS MUZZLELOADERS FROM THE DEFINITION OF A FIREARM -- THAT'S THE MINIMUM STANDARD.

ILLINOIS LAW RECOGNIZES MUZZLELOADERS AS FIREARMS AS DEFINED BY FEDERAL LAW, MEANING ANY MUZZLELOADER SENT TO ILLINOIS WOULD NEED TO BE RECEIVED BY A VALID FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSEE AND TRANSFERRED AS A FIREARM TO THE PROSPECTIVE BUYER.

THE TRIGGER AND FIRING PIN ARE CLEARLY NOT MENTIONED IN THE DEFINITION OF A FIREARM -- THE RECEIVER IS. IF YOU WANTED TO SEND ALL OF THE PARTS MINUS THE RECEIVER TO THE BUYER YOU WOULD BE LEGAL IN DOING SO, BUT THE RECEIVER WOULD STILL NEED TO BE RECEIVED AND TRANSFERRED JUST LIKE ANY OTHER FIREARM UNDER ILLINOIS LAW.

AM I CLEAR? IS ANY OF THIS MAKING IT THROUGH TO YOU?
_________________________
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Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

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#6312308 - 03/20/12 Re: Buying, selling, and shipping firearms tutorial [Re: Bricktop]
billyzink Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 230
Loc: Minnesota
I'm sorry, but are you F*CKING SERIOUS?(YES) You didn't understand a damned thing that was posted in response to your question, did you? (NO I DID NOT)


AM I CLEAR? IS ANY OF THIS MAKING IT THROUGH TO YOU? (GOT IT!!THX!!)

I'm going to answer AGAIN and I'm going to ask you to NOT respond in order to not pollute this thread any further. (SORRY!!! WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN)


Edited by billyzink (03/20/12)

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