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#6446851 - 04/26/12 TDS reticle?
MasterBlaster Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 597
Why aren't more scopes offered with this reticle? It seems like it's only currently available in certain model S & B's. Why doesn't Swarovski offer them anymore?

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#6447655 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: MasterBlaster]
marinetowgunner01 Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 6
The TDS evolved into the BR, which evolved into the BRX and BRH.

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#6447775 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: marinetowgunner01]
ShortMagFan Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 2623
Loc: NC - work / SC - play
Originally Posted By: marinetowgunner01
The TDS evolved into the BR, which evolved into the BRX and BRH.


Only because from what i understand there was a financial dispute with T.D. Smith

I think the tds reticle in ffp is the best long range reticle there is. The others you mention are only available in sfp as far as i know

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#6447841 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: ShortMagFan]
marinetowgunner01 Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 6
Yep you're right.

I've never had an issue with the reticle being SFP. I usually shoot on high mag if I'm using the reticle so it really isn't an issue for me.

I could however understand if someone was using an optic with a crazy high magnification might have an issue.

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#6447897 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: marinetowgunner01]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 14221
Loc: Central Louisiana
I like the TDS. Had one in a Swaro 6-18x50. The complaint was hunting with a bipod, trying to make a 385 yd. shot on an antelope. For the TDS to work, the scope needed to be on full power. 18X on a bipod creates a problem trying to hold the rifle still. I made the shot, but when I got home, I traded that scope for a turret scope and have been spinning turrets since.

With a turret, the power setting and range are independent. Power can be set for best view, turret turned to the correct range.

On another hunt, using a Burris with Ballistic reticle, I was deer hunting and the sun was setting. At full power, the light transmission was so bad, I couldn't see. If I cut the power down enough to see, the ballistic reticle was no longer accurate.

Needless to say, I'm out of the ballistic reticle business, although I would agree that the TDS is one of the best of its kind.

DF

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#6448029 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: Dirtfarmer]
ShortMagFan Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 2623
Loc: NC - work / SC - play
Originally Posted By: Dirtfarmer
I like the TDS. Had one in a Swaro 6-18x50. The complaint was hunting with a bipod, trying to make a 385 yd. shot on an antelope. For the TDS to work, the scope needed to be on full power. 18X on a bipod creates a problem trying to hold the rifle still. I made the shot, but when I got home, I traded that scope for a turret scope and have been spinning turrets since.

With a turret, the power setting and range are independent. Power can be set for best view, turret turned to the correct range.

On another hunt, using a Burris with Ballistic reticle, I was deer hunting and the sun was setting. At full power, the light transmission was so bad, I couldn't see. If I cut the power down enough to see, the ballistic reticle was no longer accurate.

Needless to say, I'm out of the ballistic reticle business, although I would agree that the TDS is one of the best of its kind.

DF


None of those problems exist with a first focal plane ranging reticle. But in a 2nd focal plane, the issues you experienced are for real

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#6448123 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: ShortMagFan]
MasterBlaster Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 597
shortmagfan, have you used a S & B with the TDS? Does the reticle subtend a lot of the target area on deer size game?

I ask because I have two Z6's with the TDS, but like Dirtfarmer I hate having to crank the scopes up to max for the reticle to work properly. I'm looking at buying an S & B Klassic with the TDS I was just worried about the the thickness of the crosshairs at distance on smaller southern deer.

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#6448458 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: MasterBlaster]
ShortMagFan Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 2623
Loc: NC - work / SC - play
Originally Posted By: MasterBlaster
shortmagfan, have you used a S & B with the TDS? Does the reticle subtend a lot of the target area on deer size game?

I ask because I have two Z6's with the TDS, but like Dirtfarmer I hate having to crank the scopes up to max for the reticle to work properly. I'm looking at buying an S & B Klassic with the TDS I was just worried about the the thickness of the crosshairs at distance on smaller southern deer.


I have never owned an s&b scope but did have a Swarovski ph with first focal plane TDs reticle. It does subtend more of the target but I could shoot milk jugs at 600 yards no problem and shot some of my best groups at 100 with it. There has been one for sale here on the classifieds recently for a great price. I have. Een tempted myself to buy it a few times

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#6448503 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: ShortMagFan]
hairbol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 62
I have FFP and SFP TDS reticles in Kahles (SFP), Swaro (FFP in PH and SFP in Z6) and Schmidt and Bender FFP.

For hunting I like the FFP it's simpler and accurate regardless of power. My SFP scopes are 12x max power and most are 10 tops.

Don't want to start a match here but in my opinion the TDS in the FFP is the slickest arrangement when used in combination with a good range finder that comps for angle to take high probability shots out to 600 yards. Certainly, turrets and heavy rifles with more power can be used for longer shots, but that much more specialized than typical stalk and shoot hunting. I have very successfully used a KAHLES 3.5 -10 SFP TDS in Africa on a 300 Win Mag to take a lot of game. But as another post above says when I relied on the TDS drop compensation stdia bars I was at 10X, my other shots were all close so I could use the main crosshair and compensate for the 200yd zero (which wasn't tooo often needed witha 1.3" high 100yd setting). My last trip the rifle wore the 4-16 S&B and I made some of the best shots I've made in the wide open grassy flats. Also got a Jackal running at between 250 and 300 on the second shot. The scope as I recall was on about 6-7x, but that mag didn't really matter because it's FFP.

I prefer the FFP to the second. I do not find the subtension a handicap for hunting. I guess for BR competition you might want a thinner x-hair. After all in FFP the subtension is constant across power. It's the SFP that subtension changes.

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#6448518 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: hairbol]
ShortMagFan Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 2623
Loc: NC - work / SC - play
Well said hairbol. Also worth mentioning the Ffp reticle is sweet in low light

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#6448841 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: ShortMagFan]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 14221
Loc: Central Louisiana
Thanks for that info, guys.

I've had some FFP scopes, but they were big, heavy Euro glass and eventually went down the road. Also some of them had the "tunnel effect" below 4 or 5 power. I just don't like that.

I can see how the TDS or other ranging reticle would be much better with a FFP vs. a SFP. As most scopes other than the great big ones are SFP, it's easier, IMHO, to just do turrets. Or said another way, most American hunting scopes of reasonable size and within most shooter's price range are SFP. In that context, turrets seem to me to be the better alternative.

DF

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#6448999 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: ShortMagFan]
CREDITMAN Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 154
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: shortmagfan
Well said hairbol. Also worth mentioning the Ffp reticle is sweet in low light


+1

Have two of the Swarovski PH 3-12x50 with TDS. Would buy more if they were still available. People complain that the reticle in a FFP covers up too much of the target at high magnification. These are probably the same ones that have never hunted with a FFP. Yes, the reticle does get thicker as you go up in power, but so does the target. Love the TDS and FFP.

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#6449446 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: CREDITMAN]
MasterBlaster Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 597
Thanks for all the great info fellas. I went ahead and bought the S & B Klassic 4-16x50 w/ the TDS reticle.

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#6449475 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: MasterBlaster]
slm9s Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/19/08
Posts: 2635
Loc: Tacoma
I've had the TDS and an MP8 in FFP and for hunting the dark rainy forests here in the PNW those reticles get awfully small and thin at low power.
_________________________
Steve in Tacoma

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#6449829 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: slm9s]
gonewest Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 213
I just bought a Z6I with the tds rec. with 2nd plane. I am wondering now how far will these long range 2nd and 3rd line be off per say if I'm on 6 power vrs 12? I plan on putting it on a 7mm rem mag. I will sight the center in at 3" high at 100 and should be good to 250. Then the 2nd one for 300 and the 3rd for 400. The last for 500. Does this sound about right. I will probably use 12 power for a long shot but what happens at dark an have to lower the power to see better. I do have a lite recticle also. What I don't understand about is when people say that the good thing about first focal is you can turn the scope up to see the X hairs better in low light. I thought the principal was to use low power at low light so you don't magnify darkness?

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#6450092 - 04/27/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: gonewest]
ShortMagFan Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 2623
Loc: NC - work / SC - play
Originally Posted By: gonewest
I just bought a Z6I with the tds rec. with 2nd plane. I am wondering now how far will these long range 2nd and 3rd line be off per say if I'm on 6 power vrs 12? I plan on putting it on a 7mm rem mag. I will sight the center in at 3" high at 100 and should be good to 250. Then the 2nd one for 300 and the 3rd for 400. The last for 500. Does this sound about right. I will probably use 12 power for a long shot but what happens at dark an have to lower the power to see better. I do have a lite recticle also. What I don't understand about is when people say that the good thing about first focal is you can turn the scope up to see the X hairs better in low light. I thought the principal was to use low power at low light so you don't magnify darkness?


The swarovski website has a great ballistic program where you can mess around with every possible variable in the equation to figure out where each line should work for your gun/load combo. Of course always shoot live to verify it is correct.

In terms of low light - my FFP TDS was on a 3-12x50 scope. At 8-10x magnification you are still getting as much light as your eye can use through the scope and the reticle is big, bold and right there while the target image is magnified.

I understand using a lower power in low light but in my experience and for my eyes I get the best result cranking the magnification to as high as it can go while still keeping an exit pupil of about 5mm (Objective lense size divided by magnification power). I find if i crank the mangification higher than that the image blacks out quickly. Of course, my low light hunting is mostly out of a stand at last light. If you are still hunting through dark timber then messing with a TDS reticle or scope magnification in what will be a fleeting shot opportunity begs a different scope - my choice for that scenario has been a Leupold 4x33 with heavy duplex reticle.

Unfortunately in my late 30s my eyes don't work nearly as well in low light as they did in my teens and early 20s


Edited by shortmagfan (04/27/12)

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#6451321 - 04/28/12 Re: TDS reticle? [Re: ShortMagFan]
hairbol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 62
Again not to be argumatative but the argument could be made that the TDS from Swaro devolved into the BRx reticles.

The Exbal program also has great treatment of most all ballistic drop reticles.


Edited by hairbol (04/28/12)
Edit Reason: Added discussion on Exbal

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