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#6581946 - 06/10/12 what am i doing wrong????
RIO7 Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 1272
Loc: s.tex
6mm shoots great with 3X9 50 mm leupy, took off leupy, put on 6.5x20 zeiss z-1000, varmit reticle,shoots like a shotgun ive checked every thing i can think of, re mounted scope checked for stress on scope, changed mounts
, then changed them back all work has been done to spec. changed back to leupy shoots great.what the hell am i doing wrong? what should i check?would like to use the zeiss, for p-dog shoot.rio7

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#6581966 - 06/10/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
ruffcutt Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 1847
Loc: SD
Is any part of the objective or flip caps if you have any, within a few thousandths of the barrel? I had a gun mysteriously have groups double in size, found the flip cap was just barely touching the barrel. Took the cap off and it shot normal again.


Edited by ruffcutt (06/10/12)
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#6583010 - 06/10/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
VarmintGuy Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 7313
Loc: SW Montana
RI07: I hope we can get the problem sorted out for you ASAP.
That Zeiss would be a wonderful optic in the Prairie Dog Towns.
And that brings me to this question - is the Zeiss new or has it been proven on other Rifles?
Can you take the time to "prove" that Zeiss on another "known" accuracy Rifle?
From what you have relayed so far I am guessing the Zeiss has something loose/unglued???
That would be unusual but sound possible in this instance.
Best of luck to you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

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#6583434 - 06/10/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: VarmintGuy]
RIO7 Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 1272
Loc: s.tex
varmitguy, this is a new out of the box scope. does not touch the barrel plenty of clearance, im useing a 2 piece mount timiney, i moved the scope rings closer toghther and it didnt make a differance, moved them out more nada,double checked the bases, heres, what i dont understand first shot bulls eye. then started to string out shots 1" high right next shot 1" higher right"and so it moved about 1" higher right with every shot. took scope off checked everything i could think of re mounted it now it shoots all over target with about 8" spread, took it off used different mounts think they are weaver, now its shooting about 6" spread took it off, put lupey back on shooting just under 3/4" for 5 shots 3 groups? hate to take a scope off one of my other rifles that shoots great to prove the scopes no good, then i have 2 screwed up rifles, im going to town in the morning and get a one piece mount and if that dont work im giong to send it back to ziess. rio7

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#6583512 - 06/10/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
WyoCoyoteHunter Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 4603
Loc: Carbon Co. Wyoming
RIO7, It sounds like your scope is defective...had a Leupold that did the same thing..I retuned it..something, I forget what, had come undone inside...I would get it checked out, why waste time and ammo..your faith in it is nil at this point...

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#6584221 - 06/11/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
hemiallen Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 3220
Ahem...

You have already proven with the Leupold the gun is ok..... no need to remove ANOTHER good shooting scope from a rig to prove that, IMHO

The scope that doesn't shoot well has something wrong with it, especially if you are using the same set of rings for both scopes....


Allen
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Mopar muscle

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#6584498 - 06/11/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
17ACKLEYBEE Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 19664
Loc: A wash in the west.
Originally Posted By: RIO7
varmitguy, this is a new out of the box scope. does not touch the barrel plenty of clearance, im useing a 2 piece mount timiney, i moved the scope rings closer toghther and it didnt make a differance, moved them out more nada,double checked the bases, heres, what i dont understand first shot bulls eye. then started to string out shots 1" high right next shot 1" higher right"and so it moved about 1" higher right with every shot. took scope off checked everything i could think of re mounted it now it shoots all over target with about 8" spread, took it off used different mounts think they are weaver, now its shooting about 6" spread took it off, put lupey back on shooting just under 3/4" for 5 shots 3 groups? hate to take a scope off one of my other rifles that shoots great to prove the scopes no good, then i have 2 screwed up rifles, im going to town in the morning and get a one piece mount and if that dont work im giong to send it back to ziess. rio7


Had a buddy last year that got a new Zeiss 4.5-14x44mm Conquest last year failed right of the box Zeiss replaced it for him. Everyone has a bsd one make it through QC from time to time.
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#6584582 - 06/11/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: 17ACKLEYBEE]
RIO7 Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 1272
Loc: s.tex
thanks for the comments, i was thinking the 2 piece mounts are putting a strain , or bind on this scope as its much longer than the leupy, and i need a one piece for another gun so i thought i would buy a one peice and try it with this scope and if that didnt work send scope back to zeiss. does that make sense?also im going p-dog shooting the end of june and thats what i bought the ziess for.rio7

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#6585383 - 06/11/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
safariman Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 27421
Loc: All over the place! missing Af...
Put the Loopy back on it if neccesasry for your PD shoot. Return the Euro scope for repair or return it over the counter for another if your retailer will allow. Quite clear that the scope is bad. The erector assembly is the culprit. An erector assembly retaining spring inside has come loose or was never put into the scope during assembly.
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About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500

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#6585472 - 06/11/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: safariman]
RIO7 Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 1272
Loc: s.tex
safariman,had to take a load of cattle to town this morning for the sale, so dropped them off and went local gun shop, and my buddy there and i put new rings and bases and ziess back on rifle, one last try. jhon didnt have another ziess varmit scope in shop or we would have traded out and probably will, if this dont work. its a 150 mile round trip to town so dont go a lot about once a month for food, its 115 deg. here today so will wait and shoot it in the morning.hope to meet your and your wife in new mexico , in july. rio7

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#6586284 - 06/12/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
vacrt2002 Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 2360
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
The erector assembly is the culprit. Yep.....happened to me too.
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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln

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#6590924 - 06/13/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 57919
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
Originally Posted By: RIO7
....what the hell am i doing wrong?


You put a Zeiss on it....
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" Tell 'em we done it for Dixie and nothing else...."

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#6608269 - 06/20/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: ingwe]
chucknbach Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/11
Posts: 103
Loc: Wy
So? What was the problem?

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#6611970 - 06/21/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: chucknbach]
safariman Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 27421
Loc: All over the place! missing Af...
Yeah, where are you in the proccess now? Don't leave us hangin, bro!
_________________________
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500

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#6612226 - 06/21/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: safariman]
RIO7 Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 1272
Loc: s.tex
let me give you an update on the ziess scope i have been having trouble with,as i said we put new mounts and rings on the rifle and remounted the scope, i got time to shoot it yesterday and it sighted in just fine,and tracked just fine,i always felt that the mount and rings were stressing the scope but couldnt tell where or how,still cant, but all is well now, and its running fine. i dont know how i screwed this up, i have mounted a lot of scopes and never had a problem i couldnt find, and still it fixed its self with the new rings and mounts, the good part is my rifle with this scope shoots great out to 800 yrds.thanks for your comments and advise. rio7

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#6612845 - 06/21/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
safariman Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 27421
Loc: All over the place! missing Af...
GLAD to hear it! And very glad it was a simple solution, inexpensive at that. Too few put the thought neccesary into the scope mounting system. It is a key component of the whole rifle doing its best and being reliable.
_________________________
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500

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#6623643 - 06/25/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: RIO7]
WranglerJohn Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 1815
If the forward screw on the front base is too long it can either bottom out in a mounting hole (in a few cases the hole is a blind hole not drilled through the action) or it can bottom against the barrel shank threads. When this happens the forward screw will be tight but the base is held securely by only the rear screw. Further, if the forward screw has tightened against the barrel shank threads, placing strain on the barrel and receiver junction, this causes a shift in point of aim. Changing to another base set or screws can eliminate the problem randomly when the screws are slightly shorter or the base a bit thicker.

Mounting a scope is a lot more complicated than we are led to believe. Below is a base screw that would tighten against the barrel threads before tightening against the base. The base itself would interfere with the recoil lug.



In this photo the screw has been shortened only a few thousandths and is now clearing the barrel allowing it to secure the base. The total length of this screw is .290". Shortening the base provides clearance with the recoil lug. This is something that would be missed under normal circumstances, but becomes obvious if the bases are fitted with the barrel removed. Also any distortion in the bases or rings, or over tightened screws can play havoc on a scope.


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#6637061 - 06/29/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: WranglerJohn]
wareagle Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1401
Loc: Perry. Ga
Double and triple check it before your hunt. I had a nib Ziess 4.5-14 Z800 last year that was defective . It would zero out just fine on my Sendero 25-06. I swapped it over to another rifle with same mounts and not enough windage. Naturally I thought something was up with the rifle as gneiss mounts and scope had proven good on another. So I swapped it to yet a different rifle and same problem. Put it back on the Sendero dead nuts zero. So I started doing some tracking tests with the scope. Ziess reports 60" windage @100yds. Mine had 19". Luckily the Sendero was d&t perfectly so not much adjustment was needed.
I do hope for you it is the mounts because Ziess customer service leaves much to be desired. They did send me a new scope but it took about 6 moths and several heated phone calls to get it.
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WarDamnEagle

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#6645063 - 07/01/12 Re: what am i doing wrong???? [Re: wareagle]
RIO7 Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 1272
Loc: s.tex
wranglerjhons, pictures and comments make a hell of a lot of sense, could have been what i had wrong, as i said before we fixed it with dumb luck, but its fixed and thats what matters to me. thanks wranglerjhon , i learned something from you today.rio7

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