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Gunner, you will do fine w/that 243. OK has some open spaces so if you plan to shoot really far, you might check expansion at long ranges to know where the limits are for expansion. You should be very good to go to +/- 350 to 400 yds. Any further I might lean to the 95 BT as its softer nose w/tapered jacket may open at lower speeds better. Just a thought, but sure you will flatten anything you properly aim at w/those loads.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks 65BR, all shots will be way under 150 and closer to 75 where I will use the little 243W this fall. Gunner
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DVD: a little hog is not an Elk or Moose. Believe me when I say that a 165gr lead based bullet might in fact stop in a big pillow full of wet grass and twigs, etc. That's the main reason the Nosler partition and such were developed. Bullets of the day (30's-40's) would not always penetrate throught that kind of stuff. This was also the reason Elmer used 220gr bullets in the 06, and recommended that nothing smaller than a 33 caliber with a 250 gr, and a lot of times a 300gr bullet be used on elk and such. He would agree that on a picture perfect side shot, many bullets would work, but when you hit an Elk/Moose, behind the ribs on the left side, and want the bullet to hit the shoulder on the right side, you better have plenty of penetration.
You need to get a copy of Big Game Hunting, by Elmer Keith and read it to understand the bullets, and hunting of that time. Elmer developed the prototype for the 280 Rem, the 338WM and 340Wby. They didn't have the powders then, that we have now, and sure not the bullets.
Today, there are so many really good bullets, there are a lot of folks don't know there was a time there wasn't. And that time was not that long ago. When my dad hunted Elk in the early 60's he shot an 06, using a load with a 220gr RN hollow pointed Rem. bullet, to make sure the penetration was there. I am kind of skeptical that a 185gr 338 bullet has the mass to keep on trucking if it hits an Elk in a full paunch, to go into the heart and lung area. Especially if a lead based one. While we are talking about Ttsxs here, there are a lot of people who still use the lead based , cup and core, bullets that don't have the penetration ability of the Ttsx.
Ghost
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Campfire Ranger
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Dang I sure like how those 225 SAF's look and good penetration as well.
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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In preparation for a late season Arizona elk hunt this November, I have been testing different loads in my .338 Win Mag. I would guess the shot distance would be typical of most elk hunts, 0-400 yds or so. The top two contenders are the 210 gr TTSX at 2835 fps and the 225 gr TSX at 2780 fps. Accuracy being equal, which would you utilize?
I'm not interested in other bullets, the topic of discussion is the Barnes TSX, thanks! Either one would be an excellent choice you can't make a wrong choice between those 2
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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DVD: a little hog is not an Elk or Moose. Believe me when I say that a 165gr lead based bullet might in fact stop in a big pillow full of wet grass and twigs, etc. That's the main reason the Nosler partition and such were developed. Bullets of the day (30's-40's) would not always penetrate throught that kind of stuff. This was also the reason Elmer used 220gr bullets in the 06, and recommended that nothing smaller than a 33 caliber with a 250 gr, and a lot of times a 300gr bullet be used on elk and such. He would agree that on a picture perfect side shot, many bullets would work, but when you hit an Elk/Moose, behind the ribs on the left side, and want the bullet to hit the shoulder on the right side, you better have plenty of penetration.
You need to get a copy of Big Game Hunting, by Elmer Keith and read it to understand the bullets, and hunting of that time. Elmer developed the prototype for the 280 Rem, the 338WM and 340Wby. They didn't have the powders then, that we have now, and sure not the bullets.
Today, there are so many really good bullets, there are a lot of folks don't know there was a time there wasn't. And that time was not that long ago. When my dad hunted Elk in the early 60's he shot an 06, using a load with a 220gr RN hollow pointed Rem. bullet, to make sure the penetration was there. I am kind of skeptical that a 185gr 338 bullet has the mass to keep on trucking if it hits an Elk in a full paunch, to go into the heart and lung area. Especially if a lead based one. While we are talking about Ttsxs here, there are a lot of people who still use the lead based , cup and core, bullets that don't have the penetration ability of the Ttsx. I was reading Jack O'Connor's The Rifle Book a few nights ago, and at page 232 (2nd Ed.) he states: The best all-around bullet for the .30/06 is the 180-grain, The velocity of 2,700 foot-seconds is high enough to give a reasonably flat trajectory, and the bullet is heavy enough to penetrate well. Particularly in the bullets of heavy construction like the Silvertip and Core-Lokt it has all the penetration I want for any American big game. I remember shooting a grizzly on a sandbar in the Yukon with the 180-grain Core-Lokt. Every bullet went clear through the broadside and kicked up sand on the far side of the bear. With the same bullets I broke both shoulders of another grizzly and the bullets went clear through. And on page 233, a very interesting endorsement: The 220-grain bullets are for the heaviest game such as moose, Alaskan brown bear, and possibly elk in heavy timber. The controlled expanding bullets like the 220-grain Silvertip and Core-Lokt are probably best for medium-sized and dangerous African and Asiatic game like lions and tigers. With those bullets the .30/06 seems to be an entirely adequate lion rifle. The Remington Core-Lokts are considered the opposite of "premium" today, yet game of the day seemed to die when shot with them. The biggest moose I`ve ever shot was felled by a 7x57 using plain old cup and core 162gr KS (RWS) bullets.
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Campfire Outfitter
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To be fair, the CL was a better bullet back then, than it is today...
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Campfire Tracker
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Also, those bullets JOC mentioned were shot at velocities that are perfect for cup and core style bullets.
I always thought the idea behind the Barnes X bullets was to lighten up and drive them hard. If you are keeping your ranges on elk reasonable, maybe less than 500 yds or so, I would try the 185. I have had good penetration on small deer at 338 Fed velocities, and I doubt it will lose much weight when it hits an animal.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Dang I sure like how those 225 SAF's look and good penetration as well.
Dober Hey Dober, yer a smart feller, did I break the law by shooting that old chaps cow? He was a retired Judge with IIRC some kind of ambulatory license, he was allowed bull or cow Elk, and buck or doe MD, his license didnt look anything like ours, [out of state over the counter] he was also allowed to travel on his ATV and could ride hot, and shoot from the ATV also. This was in '96/'97, have always wondered iffin I was wrong, but when I heard him holler, and seen that damn hole she was headed for, I raised and fired, didnt want the old timer to lose his cow, and didnt want her suffering needlessly either. Thanks, Gunner
Trump Won!
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To be fair, the CL was a better bullet back then, than it is today... Have they changed?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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To be fair, the CL was a better bullet back then, than it is today... Have they changed? Actually I don't think they've changed, but the bars been raised. On a side note, I'd be willing to bet that more elk are taken in Montana every year with CL's and PP's than the Premiums. IMO they work just fine as long they're pointed in the right direction. Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Dang I sure like how those 225 SAF's look and good penetration as well.
Dober Hey Dober, yer a smart feller, did I break the law by shooting that old chaps cow? He was a retired Judge with IIRC some kind of ambulatory license, he was allowed bull or cow Elk, and buck or doe MD, his license didnt look anything like ours, [out of state over the counter] he was also allowed to travel on his ATV and could ride hot, and shoot from the ATV also. This was in '96/'97, have always wondered iffin I was wrong, but when I heard him holler, and seen that damn hole she was headed for, I raised and fired, didnt want the old timer to lose his cow, and didnt want her suffering needlessly either. Thanks, Gunner .
Trump Won!
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
Dang I sure like how those 225 SAF's look and good penetration as well.
Dober Hey Dober, yer a smart feller, did I break the law by shooting that old chaps cow? He was a retired Judge with IIRC some kind of ambulatory license, he was allowed bull or cow Elk, and buck or doe MD, his license didnt look anything like ours, [out of state over the counter] he was also allowed to travel on his ATV and could ride hot, and shoot from the ATV also. This was in '96/'97, have always wondered iffin I was wrong, but when I heard him holler, and seen that damn hole she was headed for, I raised and fired, didnt want the old timer to lose his cow, and didnt want her suffering needlessly either. Thanks, Gunner Hey Gunner, no worries man. I just got a kick out of the term assist... U did the right thing no doubt. Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks neighbor. Gunner
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To be fair, the CL was a better bullet back then, than it is today... Have they changed? Actually I don't think they've changed, but the bars been raised. On a side note, I'd be willing to bet that more elk are taken in Montana every year with CL's and PP's than the Premiums. IMO they work just fine as long they're pointed in the right direction. Dober That they do! But none-the-less, I was under the impression that the "core lockt" ring had been seriously reduced in size in the PSPCL bullets. I don't think the RNCL's have changed at all. Maybe I'm wrong, here.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The RN Core-lokts are still fine controlled expansion bullets; it's the well formed heavy, tapered jacket that seem to do the work on these.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Prima fascia evidence that when it comes to bullets and bra sizes BIGGER IS BETTER... And yep, never shot an elk,,,
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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I respect everyones opinion but I have complete faith in the 185 TTSX getting the job done Plenty of shock and awe and as far as penetration I never fret that with Barnes bullets In Out Some may say a 125 lb hog 'aint a great barometer but I still contend a specimine of flesh, hide and blood is a better gauge of how a projectile will react. I see penetration, soft tissue damage and a nicely ventilated good size exit hole with much blood flow Have been killing with Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets from.22 cal thru .308 cal and see no reason the 185 TTSX will act or preform any different
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Campfire 'Bwana
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100% agreed Dan, I will be surprised if you are able to recover any of the 185's on your PG hunt, cant wait to find out though. Gunner
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