Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Good tactical sight/scope for an AR in 5.56 (for when the revolution hits)??

Can anyone recommend a good optic or tactical sight for an AR? I can't afford the high dollar stuff---like Trijicon or Elcan. What else is out there that is bullet-proof and price reasonable?

Thanks,

Jordan

Burris XTR 1-4X, about $700. It that is too pricey I'd look at the cheaper imported Burris 1-4x or maybe a Vortex

Get an Aimpoint. You can get the H-1 for around $450. It's small and light, works great, and is indestructible. Or you could go for the Aimpoint PRO. It's larger an slightly heavier, but can be had for around $375. Also indestructible.

I would also look around for these used. If you know it's a real one anyway. They last forever, Aimpoint doesn't care about who bought it first and will honor their warranty with or without receipt, and of course will save you a few bucks.

Don't buy crap. You'll end up being frustrated and spending more money anyway.

@ the the $300-up level - Burris AR scope, any of the Leupold or Nikon AR series

@ the $150-up level - the Nikon P-223's are very nice. Used Leupold

@ the $125-up level - the Primary arms stuff is OK as to scopes, but heavy, their dot sights are very nice

@ the sub-$125 mark, just get a good set of irons and learn to use 'em

The budgets people have on here confuse me, a lot of the time...
Not OP's, but the responses.

Get a Bushnell TRS-25 or a Primary Arms Micro. Have 2 Bushnells, on an AR and AK. Never had any problems of any sort.

All people are different. Some like to buy the best quality they can, some buy cheap, some like to buy the most products they can. Whatever floats your boat. I say Aimpoint for red dot or one of the new 1-6's that various companies are releasing this year for a scope.

I like quality stuff but I don't throw money away, nor do I buy the most expensive item. I buy what works for me. H1 Micro and ML3 Aimpoints, VX3 and MK4 Leupolds for optics so I don't have their top of the line stuff either.

Chinese knock offs are fine for some but not me.

Cheap always winds up costing more in the long run.

Value's very different than cheap. I'm not saying to buy a Barska or NCStar. The TRS and PA Micro are both excellent sights, and if he's asking for a good value in an optic, I think that's much more up his alley than $300+.

I remember everyone talking up some chinese 9 power compact binos from cameraland. I bit and placed an order only to have to send the cheap junk back, ordered Swarovki SLC'c from them and consider it money well spent.

I also have a pair of imported Leupold Yosemete's that I leave in the truck and use for loaners but I know what they are and they ain't my primary.

The title of the thread could read airsoft stuff but I won't reccomend cheap stuff.

Can anyone tell me how to verify that an Aimpoint is the real deal and not a forgery? Have a used beat up M2 that I think is the real deal, but I would like to know for sure.

Get a Millett DMS 1-4x24mm with an illuminated reticle. Mine is great on my carbine.

I have a Bushnell TRS-25 that I got as an experiment. At ~$100 might be worth it, right? I put it on my marlin 45-70 (I have Leupold or Aimpoint on the rifles I'd trust my life to). After about a year and a half of good service (minus some wierdism adjusting it), it got bumped or something and now the front lens is kicked in on one side. Don't know when, I just noticed it one day. POA now appears to be a couple of feet to the left at 10 yards. Haven't gotten out to the range to verify that, but it looks WAY off. After a trip to the range to verify it is messed up, I'll see if Bushnell will give me a warranty replacement, which I will promptly turn around and try to sell NIB for ~$80. Lesson learned.

They tell me one of the best way's to tell is if the logo is recessed in the case it's probably real. Most of the fakes have the logo screen printed on the side. Another way is to turn it on, if it's still running three years later it's probably the real deal

Terry

And you want to stay on a budget?

Get an Ultra Dot instead, they are less mney and are tougher to boot. The Ultra Dot's will hold up to the recoil of the 475 Linebaugh revolvers and the Aimpoints will not

Im guessing you havent seen the DDM4 torture test video.
If the ultra dot is cheaper and tougher, why dont you see more of them?

I would not call a M-4 much of a tortur test for optics, since the recoil is minimal


500 JRH




THe piece on the base of the ring that broke from reciol, but the Ultra Dot was unfased




500 Linebaugh




PLace an Aimpoint on thise big bore revolvers and the Aimpoint will fail, now that is an optics torture test


The Ultr Dots just keep on ticking after taking a licking.

I used to know a guy that had one of the ultradots on a 475 Linebaugh, they are the real deal, I shot his pistol a couple of times (that was enough for me).

The recoil isnt what I was referring to. It was the drop from the helicopter and other abuse they put it through. They are tough and pair very well with AR platform rifles.

They are most certainly not as tough as an Ultra Dot, I know this first hand

If they won't tolerate heavy recoil, why would they be able to withstand a drop out of a helicopter?

Who says hey don't tolerate heavy recoil? This is the first I've heard of any recoil problems with an Aimpont, especially the newer versions. AR's don't have much recoil but they do have the backwards thrust of the bolt carrier and buffer slamming home for thousands and thousands of shots.

How is the battery life on an ultra dot? Serious question cause I've never paid them no attention, nor has anyone else running an AR that I've seen.

The Aimpoint is a battle-proven AR optic. Having said that I've got an Ultra Dot sitting on a .500 S&W that's holding up so far. I'm not going to diss the Aimpoint but EVERYTHING about living atop a .500 is a torture test and all I can say is the UD is still working. W1 shoots a lot more than I do (damn him) so if his UD's are holding up, well, that's saying something.

I hunt almost exclusively with handguns nowadays, and the revolvers we hunt with offer an extreme test for the durability of any optic mounted on top. The only red-dot type sight that has consistently withstood the extreme recoil offered by these revolvers has been the Ultradot. I know many who have tried Aimpoints and they have failed. Granted, no AR platform rifle will exert the recoil impulses of one of these revolvers, but if they can withstand that beating, it speaks volumes about the durability of the optic.

I have one Ultradot that has its original battery in it and I have been using it steadily for more than four years.

Guy's that have tried them on these very hard kicking revolvers, that's who

I know a guy who's been running an eo-thingie on a 500 S&W without issue, have you had an Aimpoint fail?

Show me some Micro failures on these hard kicking magnums.

And yes I watched a guy shoot a 500 Linebaugh, not for me. If the UD holds up then it must be worth looking at and my hat is off to you guys that can shoot them accurately.

Several friends have had the Aim Points fail on those type revolvers, but never an Ultra Dot

>Putting tac sight on .45-70
>a year and a half later it breaks from being put on a gun with too much recoil
>sight is now deemed bad
>mfw

I would like to see a test between the aimpoint and ultra dot. Not just recoil but everything to test a sights limits. Sounds like it would be interesting to see the results.

I'm curious about how you reached this conclusion. It doesn't appear supported by the facts of the situation.

This whole thread does have me curious about whether or not the various red dots are rated for recoil. I certainly didn't see a factory rating associated with the TRS - 25. I did find plenty of internet smack talk about running them successfully on shotguns and other heavy recoiling weapons though.

It's the "cool guys" against the "cheap guys" I buy the best I can afford and don't care what anyone else uses.

I'm still waiting on any report of a Micro or later style Aimpoint going down due to recoil, I can find several reports of them surviving bomb blasts, being shot and still working but no recoil induced failures.

I'm very confused.

Isn't this about an AR in 5.56? Why are people complaining about recoil affecting the mentioned sights?

Cheap isn't the issue I have posted what I have seen with my own 2 eyes. I buy the best optics that I can get I personaly own 7 S&B rifle scopes 3 pair of Leica bonoculars, Zeis Davari, Us Optics and Nightforce scopes. Some of the S&B's that I own cost ove 3,000 dollars so price is not the point, the point is that the Ultra Dot took the abuse and the other didn't. Simple as that

Holy wow.

This is an interesting thread. I had never heard of an UltraDot before today. While I have total faith that an Aimpoint is up to the task in every way for an AR-15, I like the options that ultradot 6 offers too. I've got a plinking rifle I've been thinking about putting a red dot sight on. I might just have to try one.


Terry

Terry, I have an Ultradot 6 and I love it!

The Ultradot has been the darling of the Bullseye world for a long time; they don't get much play in the "tactical" realm, though, perhaps because Ultradot doesn't market them that way. I've got one on a Ruger 357 Maximum--a far cry from the recoil of JWP's and Whitworth's revolvers--but it has held zero for hundreds of hot 180gr loads.

Leupold 1.25x4 VXR with a pig plex reticle.

LOL, I am interested in the Ultra dot as well, looks like it's been around for 30 years and has some great reviews. And I know a higher price doesn't always get you a better product.

I'd like to know what the battery life is if left on and where it's made. Is it waterproof/fogproof?

jwp475, I would also like to know which Aimpoint you saw go down, not that I doubt you but the newer versions are pretty robust, well more so than the older M2 series. I've seen these Micros on turkey guns and slug guns without issue but then again I've seen a 500 Linebaugh get touched off too...

The failures occured 4 or 5 years ago. I personaly do not know anyone that runs Aim Points on the heavy kicking revolvers any more. The Ultra Dots are guarrented for any amount of recoil they work perfectly and Whitworth posted that he still has the original battery in his after 4 years.

The Ultra Dot is very reliable and cost much less, whats not to like?

Thanks, that rules out todays Aimpoints as I was suspecting.

And yes but having the same battery in it for 4 years is not the same as leaving it on for 4 years is it?

I doubt that it rules out anything unles they are subjected to the same recoil abuse

As to the battery commit, no [bleep] Sherlock, way to grasp the obvious

EoTech 512 for two years. Original batteries and still holds "minute of Zombie" at 100 yards with these old eyes of mine.

For when the revolution hits?

For real? You want to know what AR sight will serve you best when you go up against the the Armed Forces of the US Govt?




Gotta love da 'net.

Grins.. But when it happens I'll be running a bolt with glass, but the AR will still have good old irons.

Today's Aimpoints are different technology than 4 or 5 years ago.

And I was asking a question cause I didn't know if the sight has an on off switch or not. My Aimpoint has been on for 2 years this month on the same battery.

I'd prefer facts instead of smarta$$ remarks unless that's all you got.

Hi TWR, I just looked on the U/D website and they claim 4000hrs. Country of origin is Japan.

Terry

Maybe I missed it but what about the TruGlo 2X on an AR? The price is very attractive.

I prefer that some one not jump to eroniuos conclusion.

Aim Point gives a 2 or 3 year warrenty Ulta Dot give a lifetime warrenty. Ultra Dot claims 4000 hrs of battery life

Not my fault that you purchased a more expenive product that is no better and probable not as good


You were givenWhitworth's experience unless your google fu is weak you could have gone to the Ultra Dot web page and read their battery life claim.

You have been a smart azz from the start so I responded in kind. You are not interested in our factual experience, you are only looking to justify your choice nothing more IMHO

Well by my math 4000 hours is no where near 4 years is it. Aimpoint Micro gives 50000 hours of which I've proved about 15000 and still counting.

Battery life should not be confused with battery storage.

Just caught your edit. You have given no facts but you win?

Bull [bleep] I have given our factual experience and you have given WHAT? OH YeA absolutely nothing but another BS response

Fact is Ultra Dot has a liftime warrenty Aim Point does not. Thos is about the third time that's been posted but you
ignore everything except want you want to hear

Now go fourth and spend more for less

TWR, I don't know what you do with the firearms you mount your red dots to, but mine get used and abused in the field, and they get used and abused frequently. I hunt with mine, subject them to inclement weather, I've dropped them out of stands, and most importantly, at least to me is that I subject them to thousands of heavy recoiling rounds and the Ultradots just keep coming back for more, like a loyal dog. Now, before someone asks what recoil has to do with the durability of a red dot unit, it is extreme shock. If a sight can put up with it, then it is likely more capable of withstanding other shocks.

In one unit (an Ultradot 30), I have more than four years of fairly constant use on the original batteries, to include countless hunts, boatloads of load development, and thousands of rounds downrange. I carry spares in the field, but I haven't had a need to ever change them.

I'll bet I have more than a few revolvers that will turn an
Aimpoint into a paperweight in short order. Send one down, I'd be glad to test it.

RE batteries, teh OP said SHTF scenario.. in that one if I had an optic that required a battery, said battery would have spare in fridge or 3, and would be replaced annually along with smoke detector batteries.....how much is your life worth?

Of coruse the OP also put a price on his life by stating a dollar amount that did not equate to quality optics. IMHO.

You guys will have to buy your own Aimpoint Micro for T&E.

I did some checking though and UD's site says 20-4000 hours of battery life, so the 4000 hours (5 months) would obviously be on the lowest setting. Which is not unlike Aimpoints 50,000 hours time based on setting 8 and 10,000 based on setting 10.

Don't know how you have 4 years worth of "fairly constant use" on one battery.

I've owned an M2, 2 ML3's and a Micro H1, with literaly thousands of rounds on AR's, excluding the M2, I just didn't like that one. I'm not easy on my equipment and I'd trust my life to them. There are plenty of videos showing them being dropped from a helicopter and being blown up to being tossed onto to the gravel time and again. So my tales of them riding on the rack on my 4 wheeler and truck along with being mounted on a 223 won't mean anything but I'd be surprised if anyone has had a Micro or M4S fail due to recoil, the older M2 and the 5000/9000 etc. hunting series, not so surprised.

I did ask which models ya'll have seen fail but didn't see a response, I do have to ask were these seen by ya'll or on the net?

I also saw that the UD is parrallex free at 50M, while the Aimpoint is parrallex free period.

Looks like the UD is made in Japan, which is a plus and they run from $199 to $299 depending on model. They do have a lifetime warranty which trumps Aimpoints 10 year warranty for sure.

With my experinces with Aimpoints, I feel the extra $136 was money well spent for an AR. But I watched a guy who ya'll know as Rio Hondo Hank shoot his 500 linebaugh (I told him he was crazy) and if the UD will hold up to that kind of recoil it must be a tuff sight.

That's as fair as I can be.

Aimpoint

Warranty



Aimpoint guarantees its products to be free from original manufacturer defects in material and/or workmanship under normal use for a period of 2 years for professional or competition use and 10 years for personal use from the date of purchase.

Personal use shall mean: use of the sight in a way that implies less exposure than professional use.
Professional or frequent competition use shall mean: daily or highly frequent use of the sight in professional activities (military or law enforcement) or under conditions that could be compared to as professional.



The warranty is valid provided that the sight has not been misused, disassembled or tampered with in any way. Any attempt to disassemble or repair the product will void the warranty.

The warranty agreement is limited to the original owner and is not transferable.

Any warranty claim must be accompanied by a copy of the original receipt showing date of purchase.



http://www.aimpoint.com/us/support/warranty/

I'm not a professional nor a competitive shooter so 10 year warranty.
And I did say the lifetime UD warranty trumps it.
Problem?

Why the fixation on battery life? Four years of hunting (Do you hunt with yours? I ask because you are then probably exposing it to the elements), load development, and LOTS of shooting. One of my Ultradots gets passed from gun to gun for testing purposes and has even survived time on my 8-lb. .416 Remington Magnum. I don't know what you do for a living, but I work in the industry and spend a lot of time testing.

Now, if it will withstand the recoil of my .500 Linebaugh, that weighs less than 3-lbs, don't you think it is a good bet that it'll withstand a fall?

Not that I want in on this, but much like the earlier quesiton of how an AR can ruin a standard scope that was never addressed, when in 223, due to double recoil issues of the bolt slamming home, the scope was built to withstand from one direction but not both..

Thats very similar to standing recoil but also dropping it, the only way you will know if ANY scope stands up to dropping it is to do drop tests. Not what caliber weapon its fired on. Of course if it fails on say a 375H/H I'd be more inclined to say that it probably won't pass a drop tests either, but just because it survives recoil from X, doesn't mean it'll be fine when dropped either.

Why the fixation on battery life?

I've owned a few eo-thingies and had a few days when I went out and had dead or low batteries. Battery life is everything when you depend on a sight for a hunt or even a day of shooting. Yes I carry spare batteries, even for my Aimpoint but remember my Aimpoint has been on for 2 years, everyday and night for 2 years.

In fact right now I'm testing battery life on another eo-thingie, so far it's been on almost continuously for 280 hours or so. Not just storing a battery but actually on bright enough to use.

Yes I hunt, blue bird days and stormy days. I hunt coyotes mostly with a few contests here and there. I also hunt deer and other critters but mostly coyotes. I've torn up more than a few things while hunting. I also own a shop that rebuilds starters and alternators so I know a thing or two about testing things.

What I don't like is internet rumors, seeing something on the net is not the same as having it happen first hand. I've said from the start that the newer Aimpoints are tougher than the older hunting models yet both of you have stated that an Aimpoint will not hold up. Which Aimpoint? Evidently it's not been today's Aimpoint or someone would have offered proof.

I've never said the UD wasn't a tough sight, what I've asked about was proof that the Aimpoints wouldn't hold up and neither of you will provide any details on model or what happened, just they won't hold up and the UD will. Comparing the older versions to what we have available today isn't a fair comparison and if you just "witnessed" it by reading about someone eles's failure on the net then you don't have any idea of what happened, just what they wanted you to know.

What was said was that we have seen Aim Points fail on big bore heavy recoiling revolvers. Then you jumped to the conclusion that the newer ones would stand up to the heavy reciol of theses big bore revolvers. But we don't know that at this point it is only speculation.

Don't forget I asked which model you've seen fail, you could not or did not answer. Were you present when these Aimpoints failed or just read about them on the net?

Don't take offense but I'm sure someone who's reading this will one day remember that the UD has a 4 year battery life... Which turns out to be 5 months on the lowest setting, 20 hours on high but it was stated here as fact and you made reference to it. Things get distorted on the net. That's why it's important to base conclusions on personal experience or at least ask a few more questions.

I am speculating that the H1/T1 Micro will hold up just as you are that they won't since you've never seen one fail.

Have a good day.

Again you distort the facts on battery life. . You make it sound like a battery change is difficult, it's not as anyone that own a flash light knows




http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_004.htm

As Whitworth has posted in real life use he is still useing the same batteries for 4 years and that is a fact

I think the UD would be a fine choice for a target/plinking/hunting rifle, but for a fighting rifle, battery life is very important as TWR points out. Something else that needs to be said is abuse from recoil and external abuse are two entirely different things. While I have no experience with a UD6 I seriously doubt it could take nearly as much external abuse as a H1. I have an Aimpoint PRO and don't think it could take as much abuse as a H1 either.

All that said I think I'm going try one of those UD6's in the near future for one of my AR's. I don't fight with mine and I really like options the UD6 offers.

Terry

TC1, I have contacted Ultradot and the older models with the smaller battery is the reason that the 20 hrs is listed. The ones that they have bee proucing for a number of years uses the 2032 battery and the battery life should be 5 to 6 years

When I get the info emailed I will post

The UD chart you posted says 20-4000 hours, grab a calculater and see if that don't equal 5 months...

I've distorted nothing.

Once again, battery life is measured with the device on, now if Whitworth used his sight continually for 4 years he and you would be right but both of ya'll are distorting the facts. Any device should have a 10 year shelf life (which is the shelf life of a lithium battery) if you never use it.

Terry, I'd take that bet in a heartbeat. Battery life is exemplary in the Ultradots, so what in the hell are we talking about here? Shock from recoil is very significant. I have dropped mine out of a number of tree stands and zero wasn't even affected. Just because they don't advertise them in every magazine doesn't make them somehow less viable a sight.

How many of you are taking your personal ARs into battle? Y'all talk like you're hopping on the next flight to Kabul and this sight is a critical decision for you. Good grief.

TWR, do you turn your Aimpoint on and leave it on until the battery dies? I suspect the answer is no. I will bet I use my Ultradots at least if not more than you use your Aimpoints, and there is no issue with battery life -- period.

That is a fact. Since Ultradot doesn't pay shooters to use their product and doen't spend huge amounts on advertising is a major contributoer to the lower cost, not lack of quality

If I were going to Kabul I'd mount a S&B 1 1/4X4 or a 1.5X6 on mine, case closed

"TWR, do you turn your Aimpoint on and leave it on until the battery dies? I suspect the answer is no. I will bet I use my Ultradots at least if not more than you use your Aimpoints, and there is no issue with battery life -- period."

I've posted it twice here I think but once again, yes MY AIMPOINT H1 MICRO HAS BEEN ON FOR 2 YEARS, I never turn it off. It's on setting 8 right now and my eo-thngie is setting here on my desk and has been running for about 184 hours now. I like to test things out for myself, what can I say?

I can agree with that!

Okay.

Since you like testing, get an Ultradot and if it isn't everything that we claimed then I will buy it from you and you will be out nothing

I plan on it believe it or not and thanks for the offer but that's not necessary. It will be awhile though...

I'm always messing with AR's and get lot's of questions about different things. It'll be good to know if a cheaper option is available.

Be sure and post UD's e-mail, I am interested.

I actually know better but its hanging out there waiting for a bite. You noted you are in the "business". I"m not sure if thats testing for a company, writing etc... but note that you are an outdoor person. I can see dropping a rifle, maybe once somehow or another, but please, splain how you've managed to drop an AR(hopefully unloaded) out of a number of treestands? Or is that actually a test you run on optics to see the abuse? I"m actually interested in this dropping. That for DANG sure would be a good test to run but I just can't bring myself to drop my guns on purpose.

BTW I'm not avoiding the topic after this post.. I"ll simply be gone for a few days offshore fishing.

Jeff

It wasn't hanging anywhere had you gone back a couple more posts. Allow me to clarify. The Ultradot was mounted on a revolver, Jeff -- hunting, tree stands, and definitely not on purpose and in fact, one stand collapsed and I was lucky to emerge with only some scratches. Now why would I drop them on purpose? The point I was making that despite the falls, nothing was broken and zero never changed. Ultradots are tough.

Cool. Sounds like you got worse luck than I do and I thought I had bad luck.
Glad you came out of it all ok. Falling is very dangerous and consider yourself lucky there as I know you do.

Busy week with fire calls and such and this is a week I"m guilty of not getting time to read and clarify each and every post.

Off to the coast in a bit.

Jeff

Jeff, the outfitter nearly had heart failure after it happened. The second time my revolver fell out my stand it fell from my holster -- the strap wasn't snapped -- lesson learned!

Enjoy the coast!

Why drop one on purpose? To see what it does...

Whitworth, when you first said you dropped your gun "numerous times" from a tree stand, I was really starting to wonder about you. I'm glad "numerous" turned out to be only twice.

Anyway, here's a DD M4 torture test by Larry Vickers and that dainty looking thing on top is an Aimpoint Micro. Looks fragile doesn't it...

http://gunblog.com/daniel-defense-ddm4-torture-test-with-larry-vickers

Yes, I too want to "see what happens," but not when I'm on a hunt and counting on success.

It was the same sight twice -- I have not been kind to it. Like I said, I hunt a lot in the off-season (wild hogs -- a benefit of living in the southeast), and I give my Ultradots no quarter, LOL! But if you do enough hunting, all kinds of stuff can happen to you. Whenever I hear a hunter preface a declaration with "I have never," it usually means he/she has limited experience. For example: "I have never lost an animal." Hunt enough, and you will at some stage.

Seriously, if you are not familiar with Ultradot's products, I recommend acquiring one and putting it through its paces. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Did you watch the video?

Lets solve this. Im going to need a Aimpoint T1, and a Ultra Dot. Donations will be welcomed into my paypal account.

I did and don't think anything with an exposed turret would have survived it.

Perzactly...

[quote=Whitworth1How many of you are taking your personal ARs into battle? Y'all talk like you're hopping on the next flight to Kabul and this sight is a critical decision for you. Good grief.[/quote]

While I may not be taking mine into battle in Kabul, I use my equipment Every. Single. Day. in the protection of myself, the citizens I am sworn to serve, and those families of the Soldiers that ARE overseas and are depending on me to be vigilant in keeping their loved ones safe.

So it is a matter of perspective. Your focus is hunting, and that is where your frame of reference is. However, for those that would like a different frame of reference that is more defence oriented, some would be wise to look carefully at what is being said on here. It pains me to see people advocating stuff that's "Just as good as" without really having a true perspective into what the differences are. Not knowing what they don't know.....

Now you are definitely making assumptions about my background. Just because I am not alluding to time spent in crappy places in every post I make, doesn't mean I haven't done my time in crappy places. I spent a majority of the '90s in crappy places, under crappy conditions. I just don't feel the compulsion or the need to talk about it all the time. Also, I take the well being of myself and my family very seriously.

I was stating that I use my red dots rather extensively and often in the field, on firearms that produce a hell-of-a-lot more recoil that any AR platform. They're not just riding around in my vehicle. I too take personal defense seriously. I am not deriding the use of Aimpoint's products, only that in my experience, there have been very few optics that will stand up to the recoil these revolvers produce. Maybe their new models are better, I don't know. What I do know is that, for my use, on a heavy recoiling platform, you would be very hard pressed to find a better sight than an Ultradot. Also, they stand behind their products like very few companies. I would just like to open a few eyes about these little known optics. Ultradot makes fine products that are perhaps less known as they don't advertise like some of the other producers of red dot-type sights. That is the reason I posted in this thread -- not to get into pissing contests or arguments about who has more "tactical experience."

Everyone here needs to lighten up a bit. Life is too damned short to get worked up over the internet. JMHO.

Just curious, which optics have you personally seen fail on heavy recoiling handguns? (not counting a friend on the net had one go down and showed pictures)

I've hunted all my life, up until I bought my shop I hunted every weekend and 2-3 times a week at night. I've hunted with handguns, shotguns, rifles and bows. Tree stands, walking, running behind dogs and even out of the back of trucks in the killin chair. I currently shoot a 44 Magnum, 45ACP and 9MM for handguns but I did own a few contenders in various calibers and one encore in 308 Winchester which was quite easy to shoot. I remember the warnings of exessive recoil on handguns. Personally I've had 3 scopes go down and had dead batteries on eo-techs, never had a problem with my Aimpoints. I too, use my equipment.

Did you watcn the video?

TWR: Thanks for the video link. Impressive. I'd like to have seen the aftermath of a 10K lbs. loaded H-vee run over the rifle rather than that little Jeep. I understand why the tape on the muzzle, but what would happen if this was battle field fire fight conditions? Are they going to take the time to clear the barrel? How would they do that? That same test sequence on some of the other popular configurations and sight options would be interesting to see.