Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Bore cleaning solvent ???

Put me down on the Montana Extreme fan page, it's dynamite stuff.

Some pusher at a gunshow gave me a couple of bottles of it, to get me hooked. It worked. I'm an MX junkie now, as long as I use it outside.

It's REALLY good on my PD rifles.........

trailrider121,

I kept hearing about how KG-12 bore cleaner worked so well, without the fumes of CR-10, Sweet's, Montana X-Treme, etc.
So I gave it a try.

The test rifle was a Winchester Model .270 made in the 1980's I bought off the Campfire Classifieds. Apparently the owner had NEVER cleaned the bore, and the owner had apparently never cleaned the bore. Through my bore-scope, hardly any steel could see be seen between the caked-on copper.

I have the KG-12 a fair go, but after an entire afternoon of cleaning it had barely made a dent. I switched to Montana X-Treme Copper Killer and in a couple hours the copper was all
gone. Though I did find the KG carbon remover quite handy to get out powder fouling between applications of Copper Killer.

KG-12 bore cleaner does work, but I've only found it useful on relatively lightly fouled barrels.

+1 for bore tech eliminator. Two of my 1000 yd BR friends told me about this product. My borescope has shown me that it works well. Plus you can leave it in overnight.

http://www.boretech.com/products/eliminator.shtml

OK, Mule Deer, now you are confusing me. It wasn't that long ago that you wrote that you've given up on bore cleaning because you just need to re-foul the bore to get it to shoot anyway. Now you are back to cleaning the bore down to bare metal.

I have now seen posts from at least three Campfire members who claim I wrote somewhere about never cleaning rifle barrels anymore. I even asked one to tell me where he'd seen that, but never got a response.

I don't clean rifle barrels nearly as often as I used to, but still clean them now and then. Many years ago, before I started gun writing, I tended to believe what gun writers wrote, and there was a period during the 1980's when a lot of gun writers advocated cleaning every few rounds, because that's what benchrest shooters did. And one of the custom riflesmiths I know told me he cleaned his barrels after EVERY time he shot them.

Then another custom riflesmith said he rarely cleaned barrels. He said in his experience a really good barrel (he used Kriegers) didn't foul enough to require any cleaning for at least 100 rounds. He only cleaned them when accuracy started to fall off, and it usually took that long to see any difference.

About that time I started doing a lot more gun writing, partly because some gun magazine editors seemed eager to pay me to do so. So I started experimenting with cleaning.

I'd always kept a log of how many rounds went through the barrels of each of my rifles, along with how often they were cleaned, but mostly so I'd make sure to clean them as often as the experts said I should. Eventually I found that very few rifles started shooting noticeably worse after only 20 rounds, and many would go 50 or 100 or even more and still shoot exactly the same.

I also started experimenting with barrel break-in, as that had also become a hot issue. In general, I found breaking-in a barrel did make it shoot better--but also found that the standard method used by most shooters (shoot once, then scrub the hell out of it with a bronze brush and some solvent) didn't do any good, because it didn't get much copper-fouling out of the barrel. Instead of the bullet "burnishing" bare steel, it burnished the copper. I also discovered that cleaning after every range session with a new rifle pretty much broke in the bore just as well, and meantime provided much more useful information.

I also discovered the second custom riflesmith was right: Really good custom, hand-lapped barrels don't need to be cleaned very often, and don't need much break-in in the first place, since all we're normally breaking-in is slight marks in the throat from the chamber reamer.

It also turned out a lot of barrel cleaning could be avoided by using cleaner-burning powders, not just because of powder fouling but because powder fouling tends to be abrasive, increasing copper-fouling. Many of the older ball powders proved to be the most obnoxious. Some even contained so-called decoppering agents, but due to the large amount of abrasive powder fouling, it didn't do much good. So I changed to clean-burning powders.

About a decade ago I bought a bore-scope and found out even more interesting things--first that just because a bore appears clear of copper at the muzzle (the part we can see without a scope) doesn't mean it's clean all the way through. Barrels can tend to copper-foul anywhere along the bore, though in front of the chamber is most common. I also found out how well many copper and carbon cleaning products actually work.

There were some experiments with fire-lapping, which proved most useful in smoothing out the throat--another reason I quit breaking-in barrels with the 1-shot-clean method. Five fire-lapping bullets smoothed the throat much quicker--and better.

Then came Dyna Bore Coat, which reduced the amount of cleaning needed for just about any barrel. Eventually I refused to tolerate any barrel that required cleaning more than once every 50-75 shots, and won't even tolerate that in a prairie dog rifle. My varmint rifles either have naturally non-fouling bores, or have been lightly fire-lapped and then DBC'd. I only clean them once every 200-500 rounds, depending on the bore, and some probably don't even need that.

So yes, I do clean rifle bores, but only as needed, which isn't very damn often anymore with my own rifles. Now, I do buy used rifles quite often, so still need to know how to get a lot of copper and carbon out quickly. But my own rifles tend to get cleaned once every year or two, and sometimes even less.

Mr. John what does your light fire lap consist of?
Thanks

I've had one of the NECO kits (www.neconos.com) for several years now, which allows you to put grit on whatever bullets you want. I use a medium0-coarse grit on a fairly long bullet for the bore diameter, and usually fire five, rather than go through the whole drill suggested in the kit.

The same kit can be used to smooth up a throat that's starting to erode. Then I fire around 10-15 rounds of the coarsest grit.

Another fan of Bore tech Eliminator here. Works great. Anyone use Iosso bore paste occasionally?

What are the advantages of Dyna Bore Coat?

Yeah, I've used Iosso. It's pretty good stuff if you want to get relatively mild powder and copper fouling out quickly, without a lot of fuss. Used to use it for cleaning rifles during prairie dog shoots, when I still cleaned in the field.

Dyna Bore Coat is a clear ceramic coating that fills in small imperfections in the bore permanently. It's installed by patching or bore-mopping it into a clean, degreased bore, then firing a few shots to press and melt the ceramic reduces fouling considerably. The company that sells it claims at least 80%, and that's been my experience in at least a dozen bores treated over the past 3-4 years.

Oh, and it lasts for the life of the bore.

Dumb question, do you feel it's worth the hassle/cost/trouble? Sounds interesting.

Yeah, I do, especially in bores that shoot well but foul quickly, or in varmint rifles that are shot a lot.

One kit costs around $45, as I recall, and I've treated at least 6 bores with my latest kit and probably have half of it left. It really isn't a hassle to install. You have to clean the bore down to bare steel and degrease it (a bottle of degreaser comes with the kit), then put the stuff in with a cotton patch or bore mop, just like you were putting solvent in the barrel. It dries in 15-20 minutes. Then you shoot half a dozen rounds and it's done--though usually after the "curing" shots there's some fouling, though less than normal, even then.

I've put it in varmint barrels in calibers like .17 Remington, .204 Ruger and .220 Swift, then shot 200-300 rounds at prairie dogs and found almost no copper fouling. It also allows powder fouling to come out easier. In fact it's great in muzzleloader barrels, even when shot with real black powder. The fouling comes out a LOT easier. At least one manufacturer is putting it in their muzzleloader bores at the factory.

The best use I've gotten out of DBC, however, is in my custom FN .338. The bore was always a fouler, but I put up with it because it shot so well--for 20 rounds or so, when it started shooting groups well over an inch, then required LOTS of work with JB and solvents to get clean.

Eventually I grew so weary of cleaning it that I was considering rebarreling, but then DBC'd it. Now it will go 60-75 rounds between cleanings and still be shooting pretty well, and comeplete cleanup takes 2-3 patches of Montana X-Treme. In other words, it acts like a more normal barrel now.

I have found the same in numerous guns I own.

My RRA LAR-8 and LAR-15 refuse to copper foul because they have factory lapped barrels of very good quality.

My deer rifles [Marlin XL-7 and XS-7, Remington 700 classic, Ruger Hawkeye, Ruger M77 MKII] have no problem going 50+ rounds between bore cleanings. When I do clean them, the foaming bore cleaner makes short work of any fouling and keeps things simple.

Mule Deer, have you tried the DBC on any old pitted barrels? I'm working with an old cape gun in 303 Brit, and it's early life was clearly with mercuric primers. I've gotten it shooting very mild loads, as I want to keep pressures low. It's shooting 175 grain RN's at about 1850. It's already smacked a wild hog quite effectively (and quail the next morning with the 12 bore barrel, neat).

I've cleaned the bore extensively but it has mild pitting and it fouls quickly.

Really no problem keeping it as is, as it's shooting under 2 inches at 50 yards. However, something to reduce the fouling would be nice. Your thoughts appreciated.

I use these two they are better than Eliminator





Anyway thats what my Hawkeye borescope says.

No 'Solvent' at all.

Just coat a patch with whatever you have left over and then use a light oil on a patch after that's gone.

A. Wipe the crud out with the patch so coated.
B. Brush the bore with a bronze brush.
C. Wipe it again like A.
D. Use a bore cleaning compound like J-B Cleaning Compound.
E. Wipe it out as above.
(Cut a piece of a patch and rub the compound into it. Place the strip of patch on a smaller brush and clean it out.)

For heavier cleaning I use Stoeger's X-Ring Paste and then if necessary Stoeger's Barrel Restorer.

Apparently you really like to spend time and work hard cleaning a bore. Retired and needing stuff to keep you busy?

Robertc,

No, I haven't tried DBC in a pitted rifle barrel--though did put it in a pitted shotgun barrel which kept clogging up from plastic wads, especially in the chokes. It worked pretty well there.

I am planning to try it in a couple of old rifle barrels soon, especially an original trapdoor Sprngfield that shoots jacketed bullets fine but not cast bullets.

Since we sold the boat my only hobby is hunting and shooting it seems and the forums.

I don't clean a rifles bore at all unless it stops shooting well. Good shooting, for me, starts with staying sighted in.

I have done very well in a "Free rifle" shoot that requires 120 shots plus sighters from a 6mm Intl. 40X without cleaning.

Here are two shots to check the zero from my 243 Montana with the 58 gr VMax at 200 yds.

Montana Xtreme and wipe out for me!

There is some pretty good advice on this thread. I have been using sharpshootr products for a few years. I would like to start using Boretech products as well.