Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting build me a long range bear rifle

Like I said in previous post, I'm not a scientist but if you check the ballistic charts you would see that a 168 SMK fired from a 7mm magnum at 2950 ft/sec will have only 982 ft/lbs energy left at 800 yds. Some pistols have more energy than that. Would you shoot a large bear with a small caliber pistol? This is probably why the USA military never adopted this round in sniper circles. I mean they must know something about knockdown power and the energy required to pierce body armor. Of course I can see some idiotic comments coming like "Dude -Bears don't wear body armor" Please leave the stupid comments out of a serious discussion, have a good day.

... Do we need to hope on luck to pull off the shot.

Would you shoot a large bear with a small caliber pistol?

Ths most destruction was created by the round with the least amount of kinetic energy

It's late, I'm tired but I just couldn't help myself.....

So the requirements are for 450 yards out to 750 yards on medium/big game. $3,500 budget. The op has a 308win with a 2-7x redfield. Says that 750 yards falls within his comfort zone yet has no LR rifles, but he shoots with buddies a bit and uses their rifles so he's good for half mile cross canyon shots...... right?

Given those parameters we have posters suggesting, 7lb 7mm RUM's, 300 RUM's, and 338 RUM's. 338/378 Weatherby's, 340 Weatherby's, 28in barrels, 225gr Barnes TTSX's (really????), and Ziess scopes.

Can we get a reality check please.

Seems to me we have a bunch of guys suggesting the latest gun they bought, or their cooked up fantasy LR dream gun without a whole lot of busted caps at LR to base that suggestion on. Tanner and BSA seem to be the only ones in reality land.

From the info provided I am 99.99999% sure we have an individual with very little long range experience. Given that anyone that shoots LR a lot has at least one rifle and scope capable of LR shots (not a 2-7x Redfield) and would know what calibers, cartridges, rifle type, and scopes are suitable for 750 yard shots. Don't you think? You guys really think a 7lb 338 RUM with a Ziess scope and launching 225gr Barnes bullets is the best answer for 800 yard animals for someone with little experience? Heck for someone extremely experienced?

Why don't we come back to reality. Minimally experienced shooter? 800 yard cross canyon shots? (probably the toughest winds to deal with and the hardest to call). So not only have we crossed into true long range shooting, but added the most difficult shooting conditions as well. Then we add a lightweight 300 or 338 super magnum rifle shooting bullets that will barely expand or fail to expand at the distance required? On top of it he's going to mount a Ziess hunting scope? Really?

What his needs tell me is that he has crossed over from general hunting rifles into dedicated LR rifles. He didn't say bear hunting with the occasional 5 or 600 yard shot, he said his shots will be from 450 out 750 yards as a general thing.

I am a big fan of lightweight and normal hunting rifles. I.E. under 10lbs. They can be used exceptionally well out to 600+/- yards and if I have a very good spotter I might push one out to 800yds or so. Past that 600 yard zone I do not expect 1st round hits in anything but the most perfect conditions on deer size targets. I would guess 70-80% at 800 with my general hunting rifles and a trained spotter from field positions. That's with 300 Win Mags. 7mm RM's and WSM's, 243win's, etc. Not guns with truly big recoil- a la Reminton Ultra Mags and 338/378 Weatherbys.

For 800 yard shooting I'll skip right over my hunting rifles and go straight to my dedicated guns. I personally would start and stop in on the 7mm Remington Magnum or the 7mm WSM and like cartridges. Why? Because with good bullets they offer good terminal performance at LR and will match or beat the big .338 guns in drop and drift to 1K or so while having half the recoil. The medium 30 caliber rounds such as the 300WM, Weatherby, WSM, etc work well too. Keep in mind though, given the same level of recoil and the same amount of powder burnt, the 7mm's crush the 30 cals in drop/drift.

For under 1k rifles I'm not talking about 18-20lb behemoths. My sniper competition partners rifle (which I actually shoot the comps with) is about model perfecto. 7WSM, 24in barrel, Manners carbon fiber stock, Bushnell HDMR 3.5-21x50mm scope, shooting 162gr Hornady AMAX's or HPBT bullets. With loaded 5 round mag and short bipod it weighs about 12-13 pounds I believe. It shoots extremely well and most importantly is consistent enough for true 800 yard work.

I am not a fan of hunting scopes for dedicated LR use. 800 yards is well past the "close enough" range, and no regular scope from Zeiss, Leupold, Bushnell, Swarovski, etc. has the precision, durability and reliability for true LR use. SWFA's SS, Nightforce, [u]some[u] Leupolds, Bushnell's HDMR, Hensoldt, March, possibly the Ziess Diavari, and the S&B PM series offer the precision and consistency that is needed.

If I were the OP I would do a couple of things. First I would buy an SWFA SS 3-9x42 scope- Located here and mount it to the 308win he has. Then I would take a thousand dollars of his budget and buy reloading components. I would pick any bullet suitable for LR, i.e. Berger 155gr VLD, Lapua Scenar 155gr, 155gr Sierra MatchKing Palma, 175gr SMK, Hornady 168gr or 178gr AMAX or BTHP, buy Varget and find a load that will average under 1.5 MOA for 5 round groups and then quit worrying about loads and take those 1,000 to 2,000 rounds he loaded and shoot all of it this year from field positions learning how to make wind calls, dial the scope correctly and quickly and find out what he is really capable of. If he is really smart he would attend a LR hunting/shooting course that is at least 2 days long taught by someone that honestly knows what they are doing, thereby cutting the frustration and learning time dramatically.

In addition on the absolute lightest side I would buy a Winchester Extreme Weather in 7mm RM or 7WSM or even better a Coyote Light in 7WSM, or on the heavy side a Tikka T3 Varmint in 7mm RM, a Savage LRH or 110 Tactical or whatever they call the heavy barrel version these days, a Remington Sendero, etc., all in either the 7mm Remington Mag or 7mm WSM. Then either put another SWFA SS 3-9x42 on it, or if he just has to have more power get the 5-20x50 version of the same scope. Find a load with 162gr Hornady AMAX's or BTHP's, with around 70gr of H1000, that will consistently group 5 rounds at 1 MOA or under, and then shoot it just enough to get a feel for the difference in wind holds between it and the 308win.

There is your $3,500 budget with guns and scopes that are setup for success. Basically I just described a light LR Tactical/Sniper competition rifle because that is exactly what it is. If the op has a Rangefinder capable of ranging animals at 1k, a good spotting scope and does the above he will be smoking things at LR by next year. If he follows some of the advice given above he will have an expensive, painful toy and will probably be another "hunter" talking about killing at LR rather then actually doing it.......