Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 35 Cal and Heavy for Caliber Pills

My interest has been drawn to 35 caliber rifles, specifically .358 Win and .35 Whelen. Does anyone here have experience with heavy bullets, i.e. over 250gr? Looking for a heavy pill to stop angry bears, with particular emphasis on Woodleigh and North-fork bullets.

I am curious about any and all data: velocity, seating depth, powder charge/type, recoil, accuracy, etc. Also if using a 358 win, did you encounter seating issues with long and heavy bullets?

Thanks,

George

Built a 358 a few yrs ago....250 Hornady is the heaviest I loaded

http://35cal.com/index.html

I have a 358 Norma Mag with a 20" barrel,, I've recovered 280 Swifts from moose and brown bears from ranges up to 300 yds and they all look the same,a perfect mushroom. At 300 yds they are probably around 1800fps so I'm guessing they would work fine in your 358 Win.

I've played with all the weights in my Winchester 358 from 200 through 310 including the Woodleigh in the latter weight, the 280 Swift, 200, 225, and 250 Barnes XFB, Partitions, Grand Slams, as well as the usual Interlocks and Hot-Cors. While the heavies do well inside of 50 yards or less in terms of expansion and penetration, I have concluded that 225 is about the ideal combination of penetration and "energy transfer" depending on the bullet construction.



Even the 'puny' little 200 XFB does wonders on tough materials and delivers much better speed than do the heavies - and no crunched powder loads to risk bullet push-out. The 250 Partition loaded with A2520 will get you around 2300 give or take and that's another way to get plenty of power delivery. I've carried my 358 numerous times as a handy-rifle in bear country. There really is nothing wrong with 250s when it comes to 'heavies' in the little 35.

Agreed

I have only went to 250, using the PT in the 35 Whelen. Shoots really well around 2600 and that bullet is pretty incredible in penetration.

I have a 358 Norma in the build shop right now, might get a chance to try the bigger bullets in it, but I doubt I would gain too much over a 250 PT.

I'll be slinging 225 PArtitions in a couple weeks at Colorado elk (or so I hope). Penetration tests verify good performance out to 300 yards (I shot wet printer paper at that distance, and got excellent mushrooms and weight retention) in my 358 Win.

the projectiles are Godawful expensive (now over $1/ea) but they sure look like they'll get the job done, and group pretty well at reasonable recoil out of my lightweight BLR takedown. If I cant get closer than 300 yards, then it just wasnt meant to be/bad on me.

shane

I tested the Hornady 250gr SPIL, the Speer 250gr HC and GS and the 225gr TSX. The TSX shot flatter (obviously), expanded as wide and penetrated deeper than the 250grainers. I settled on the 225gr TSX at 2700fps.

I'm not convinced that the 280gr A-Frame or 310gr Weldcore would do much better.

That is good to know about the 358 and projectiles around 200 grn/225. The barnes TXS look promising.

As far as caliber goes, i'm on the fence about an upcoming build. Either a 358 win on a SA Remington or a 35 whelen on a LA rem. Both seem quite versatile however I am interested in the whelen because I can shoot longer bullets with fewer issues.

Given Klikitarik's excellent input about the 358 winchester it is clear that longer bullets aren't an issue.


@ BCSteve What caliber are you using for your 225 TSX?

Hey George,
Like many of the other posts I have palyed with the 200gr to 300gr bullets. The 300gr are the Barnes Origionals from many moons that I like to play with. I also have shot many 275gr Hornandys. All these heavier bullets hit straight on at 100 yards out of my 35 whelen 1:14 twist Shilen Barrel. That being said, I have taken numerous head of game with the 225gr TSX (and X bullet before that)and have settled on an this load with R-15 which provides 2625fps from my gun. The most telling shot was at an eland at 25 yards straight on, the bullet caught it in brisket, the eland reared up like a horse and fell over dead. I found the perfect tsx in left ham. Maybe 4-5ft of penetration. So, this is the load I now use on everything from deer to large plains game without hesitation. Good shooting.

I've killed two or three moose with the old 225 XFB in my 358 Win. I haven't been as impressed with the 225 TSX's expansion, even when driven at Norma speeds however, so that isn't a bullet I will use in the smaller case. The Win case really doesn't have enough juice to cause 'failure' in any of the 250s.

I had my 358 Win put together expressly as a bear-handy tool, consequently my tests of the heavy-weights. If what you want is a soft expander which penetrates well without coming apart, the big Woodleigh may be what you want. Then again, that bullet may be a disappointment beyond very close distance work. I always consider my 'bear tools' to be more than personal protection considering that they may get called upon for use against bears for others who may be a bit farther away. So I've settled on the 225 Partition as a good balance of penetration and speed for distances near or moderate.

That was out of my Whelen. Here's a few more:

Test media was wet newspaper.
Impact velocity: approx 2500fps for the 250gr and 2650fps for the 225gr.

Hornady 250gr SP IL
Penetration: 17"
Expansion: 0.802, 0.793, 0.792....avrg: 0.803
Weight retention: 206.2, 206.0, 204.2....avrg: 205.1gr



Speer 250gr HC

Penetration: 18"
Expansion: 0.670, 0.796, .0774....avrg: 0.747
Weight retention: 173.8, 217.8, 209.5....avrg: 200.4





Speer 250gr GS

Penetration: 18"
Expansion: 0.656, 0.700...avrg: 0.678
Weight retention: 208.3, 212.8....avrg: 210.6
(one bullet got away)




Barnes 225gr TSX

Penetration: 20"
Expansion: 0.737, 0.755, 0.686...avrg: 0.726
Weight retention: 225.1, 225.0, 224.9...avrg: 225.0

That is a great line up right there. The 225 TSX is a good bullet for sure.

Here are a couple 35 caliber bullets I have captured.

358 250 grain PT from the target backstop. Started out at 2630 from my Whelen.







225 TSX from a mid sized Idaho bear. Shot from one corner to another. DRT. Broke front left leg and continued to demolish the spine and hip. Found on the ground after skinning the bear.







Can't see much difference between the 225 TSX and 250 PT besides the better BC of the 250 PT. Again, nothing to not use one over the other, but I get a much better deal on the 250 PT's and they do shoot really well in my Whelen.

The 250 Speer HC is a true sleeper to me. I wouldn't be scared to run that bullet into much of anything at Whelen speeds.

Like some above I gave the 250 and heavier bullets a go but have stuck with the 225's. For the 358 Win I like the SGK and Partitions, the 35 WAI shoots the Barnes TSX.

I'm of the thought that if I were hunting big game in serious bear country, I'd go with my RL15/225gr. TSX load and not worry one bit. Those bullets penetrate like nobody's business. At 2710 FPS they shoot fast enough that a 250 yard elk or moose shouldn't be much of a problem and up close and personal with Mr. Grizz, well I'll bet that bullet would penetrate from nock to noodle. I would think the 225 gr. Nosler partition would be in second place recarding deep penetration but it would be an extremely close second place. After seeing that TSX go through fout feet of elk and come out, that has to be sufficient for the great bears.
Paul B.

Shot one moose with 225 gr TSX bullets in my 35 Whelen, I have no doubts that it will perform well on a big grizzly, they certainly dig deep. Actually the 225 gr Accubond or Partition will do well after seeing how well they have peformed on moose in the past.

Here's a few 358 Winchester results...



Rem 200 PSPCL taken from a caribou at under 80 yards; bone struck.




250 Speer Hot-Cor taken from moose at under 50 yards; minor bone struck. Entered in from of point of hip, across top of stomach, stopped in ribs on far side.



250 SP Interlock and 225 XFB taken from moose at over 200 yards. IL glanced off humorus and git just inside cage; XFB struck spine and slid alongside a few inches.



Moose killed with previous bullets at twilight on shortest day of the year.

With the Norma 358...



A 250 A-Frame at around 200 yards.



The scapula which the previous bullet demolished. A second bullet, a 250 Partition land a few inches back and punched fully through the animal diagonally.

Awesome performance. I have a 358 Norma on the build for this year. Can't wait to get a bigger 35..

That is a most impressive performance. Believe I am sold on the 225's and 250's. Now if I could only decide between SA/LA (358 or 35W)

"That is a most impressive performance. Believe I am sold on the 225's and 250's. Now if I could only decide between SA/LA (358 or 35W)"

That's simple. Just go with the .35 Whelen. You can always load down to .358 Win. Specs if you want.
Seriously, I had the .358 Win. first and started playing with it. Then I got a Whelen and the .358's just sit in the safe sad, lonely and neglected. I really should take them out for some air one of these days. Maybe after hunting season is over.

Paul B.

If you're going to go long, you might as well go Norma. You can readily make cases from 7 Mag or 338 brass, and you can load down to Whelen speeds it you like. (Or just load 75 grains of 4350 behind 250s and call it good....is that a "no-brainer" load or what?)

George
Not 35 caliber but when I went looking for load data for the 375 Whelen I used 35 Whelen data as a starting point.
My heaviest bullet was 300 grain cast bullet from a NEI mold.
I used the 35 Whelen load data for 250 grain as the starting point and went up from there. If memory serves I settled on Accurate Arms 2520 powder and IMR 4064.
Some where I picked up data for the 35 Whelen with a 300 grain slug and used it for my 375 Whelen. I found both AA2520 and IMR 4064 to be forgiving and very accuraste.

Jim

350 Rem Mag on a LA is another option, although the Whelen is about the same ballistics wise.

I've always favored a SA; though it seems unanimous that the LA in 35 cal is more versatile. Especially if loading heavier pills, at the sacrifice of range at a point. Whelen with 225 or 250 seems like my ideal. Especially that I have read about people having trouble with Barnes TSX 225 in 358 win due to compression/OAL.

What is your 200 X load and your velocity please?

I have a 35 Whelen built on a 700 action and a BLR in 358. They both shoot great but the Whelen is outstanding. My son and I each took an elk with it in 2010. One shot each with a 225 grain Partition, no bullet recovered.

One other thing to consider, even for a handloader, is factory ammo availability. Neither one is 270 common but the Whelen seems to be a little more available. Even if it is not what you want, the ability to buy a box of Core Loct's is better in a pinch than using it as a club. I have been there, and in my experience rifles make poor clubs.

I got a kick out of the "Use it like a club" That is another plus for the whelen as well.

I've been reading about reloads for the whelen, specifically for the 225 TSX and the 250 Partition. For what I could find, 225's are getting push northward of 2600-2650. While partitions seem to go right about 2500 give or take. Certainly can get behind those numbers.

Using a .350 Rem Mag, 20inch barreled Model 7 KS, I settled on 250 grain Grand Slams. Used them on caribou, black bear, and a couple whitetail, never recovered any bullets, all were pass through, left great blood, but nothing went far enough to make the blood trail meaningful.

Just bought a few boxes of Nosler 225 Partition loaded ammo, will try those out and see if the rifle likes them.

As far as ammo availability....350 Remington Mag but Remington won't load ammo anymore.....yeah.

35 Whelen makes sense.

In the .35 Whelen 225 grain are my bullet of choice. This is based on 25+ years of reading, research, range testing and in the field experience on game.

Same here (although only about 20 years for me). I've settled on the 225gr Partition as the only bullet I'll ever need in the Whelen.

Man, a 20in barreled 358Norma should get a man's attention when it goes off. I thought there were several members that were sold on the load of 45-46gr of IMR4064 w/a 250gr Speer bullet in the 358. This is the first time I've heard of it being suspect of not opening. I'm referring to Klikitaric's statement that the 358 doesn't have enough juice to open any of the 250gr slugs. If I had a 358 I believe that would be the load I would shoot...that or the 225gr Partition. powdr

I went another direction from the Norma and went with the 35 Newton. Barrel is just shy of 21" and shoots excellent. I run 250 PT's at 2810 and it shoots really well. Very handy rifle with some extra reach.

Still hard to beat a 35 Whelen with a 225 or 250 though. A little less recoil and maybe a little lighter as well.

The 358 Winchester gets fed a steady diet of 225 PT's.

Following along, since I love the .35s, though I don't go NW enough to justify a Whelen I want, but have to make do with piddly 35Rs and 358s and such. It kinda confuses me (also) the insistence (by some) that 250s are too much for 358s, when they can be pushed to 2350-2400+? Seems that until they got below 1800, they'd open....IF we aren't talking tiny deer and few bones? I tend to think the 225s are probably best all around, and I tend to use lighter stuff for my area, since it's all that's needed....until I'm after bear or moose, then a 250 would make me more 'comfortable' than a 200.....Whelen, win, rem mag, or other.

200 Hornady for my 358. Full length penetration, doesn't get much better for my purposes.

For conventional softpoints I could never see a difference between the 250 Hornady, Speer or anything else. The only poor experience I ever really had was with the 280 Swift at about 2200fps, just not enough speed to expand on even a big pig.

When I run out of my current loads I will probably take a long look at the 200 TTSX cruising about 2800fps.

what have you shot with it. I am thinking about loading it in my 358 BLR

Not to answer for Fireball, but I've put 4 of those through 5 deer, and a few privet bushes, in a .358. The deer died, but the privet recovered.