|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,584
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,584 |
...the A-Max is a target bullet designed to penetrate a piece of paper and may very well blow up when it hits something solid.
The 168 AMAX was the original bullet for the Hornady TAP ammo. I have shot them thru autobody, windshields, body armour and drywall. I assure you. they dont just turn into lead dust when they encounter something harder than paper. Tissue is mostly water and water is incompressable. Water must be displaced since it is already at its most dense state when in liquid form. A bullet like the AMAX, when striking tissue, will deform quicker...but it doesnt return to it molecular state in the first mm of resistance. Deer are not that hard to kill. Skin on the off side being pulled away from tissue has nothing to brace against and is pretty damn tough to penetrate. A bullet that retains enough energy that when deformed will penetrate the offside hide has only left a small portion of its energy inside the animal. I prefer a round to enter and deform quickly, transfering energy to tissue. Not enter and traverse half the animal only to begin expanding 50% of the way through and then use its energy up trying to tear out the offside. I shoot them BECAUSE they deform and have limited penetration. I want that rapid deformation. Coupled with precise shooting and the ability to relegate shots to the neck, an AMAX is a hard bullet (forgive the negative pun, to beat. Is it the bullet to use when you shoot for the shoulder? no. but I dont and many shooters dont. ![[Linked Image]](http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/WebData/HornadyRifle/308WIN_168AMAX_4website.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/WebData/HornadyRifle/308-Win-168gr-AMAX-mr.jpg) I'm afraid you've taken the expression "blow up" far more literally than I intended. I didn't mean vaporize or "return to a molecular state", I meant exactly the extremely rapid expansion you've described. I don't consider a bullet that expands so rapidly that shots have to be confined to the neck an asset. YMMV
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 894
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 894 |
LMAO,
There was a time on the fire when it did not matter if you were hunting flies or elephant, shooting a 30 carbine or a 30-378 .You had to have Barnes X bullets or you were considered a fool. Now----------------------
It is the internet!
8mmwapiti
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,590 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,590 Likes: 1 |
Really?
I guess none of my big game animals ever died quickly.
Nothing larger than bull elk for me though.
Never used a Barnes bullet for any big game.
I am not suggesting everyone should use the A-Max.
It is just one choice among many. We are blessed to have so many good options.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,610
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,610 |
162 Amax shoulder shot with jacket under the skin on the off side. Who would have though it?..............grin ![[Linked Image]](http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab144/raghornjp/IMG_0317.jpg) ...the A-Max is a target bullet designed to penetrate a piece of paper and may very well blow up when it hits something solid.
The 168 AMAX was the original bullet for the Hornady TAP ammo. I have shot them thru autobody, windshields, body armour and drywall. I assure you. they dont just turn into lead dust when they encounter something harder than paper. Tissue is mostly water and water is incompressable. Water must be displaced since it is already at its most dense state when in liquid form. A bullet like the AMAX, when striking tissue, will deform quicker...but it doesnt return to it molecular state in the first mm of resistance. Deer are not that hard to kill. Skin on the off side being pulled away from tissue has nothing to brace against and is pretty damn tough to penetrate. A bullet that retains enough energy that when deformed will penetrate the offside hide has only left a small portion of its energy inside the animal. I prefer a round to enter and deform quickly, transfering energy to tissue. Not enter and traverse half the animal only to begin expanding 50% of the way through and then use its energy up trying to tear out the offside. I shoot them BECAUSE they deform and have limited penetration. I want that rapid deformation. Coupled with precise shooting and the ability to relegate shots to the neck, an AMAX is a hard bullet (forgive the negative pun, to beat. Is it the bullet to use when you shoot for the shoulder? no. but I dont and many shooters dont. I'm afraid you've taken the expression "blow up" far more literally than I intended. I didn't mean vaporize or "return to a molecular state", I meant exactly the extremely rapid expansion you've described. I don't consider a bullet that expands so rapidly that shots have to be confined to the neck an asset. YMMV
B.C. don't matter.............Laffin!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921 |
LMAO,
There was a time on the fire when it did not matter if you were hunting flies or elephant, shooting a 30 carbine or a 30-378 .You had to have Barnes X bullets or you were considered a fool. Now----------------------
It is the internet!
8mmwapiti LOL! So true indeed. We had the Barnes rage, 257 Wby rage, 25-284 rage, A-MAX rage(?!), 223AI rage, just to name a few from over the years. What's next? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,507
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,507 |
McMillan rage, .280AI rage, 7WSM rage, 6.5mm rage, Leup 6x42 rage, Sucks 700 rage, etc, etc...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,851 Likes: 48
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,851 Likes: 48 |
Here is mine out of my 'lope this year. ![[Linked Image]](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy188/JeffP40/Bullet3.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy188/JeffP40/Bullet4.jpg) 123 Amp jacket, 200 yds, about 3000fps impact speed. I'm really liking these recovered bullet pics.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
The day before I left for my sheep hunt with Ken Waters, I got a sample box of a new cup-and-core bullets from one of the premier bullet-makers. I loaded some and left.
My sheep went down right away. Took only one shot.
When I got home, there was a letter from that bullet-maker � "Don't use those bullets that we just sent you for game."
So was that bullet good for game? What can anybody reasonably conclude from conjecture, only one kill, or the maker's recommendation?
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,310 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,310 Likes: 1 |
Never, never, never....read the directions first.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 63
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 63 |
I've never shot a deer with A-max bullets but I load them exclusively for use in my Remington 700 Ti in 30-06. I've shot 6 dall sheep and one mountain goat with them with fantastic results....bang- flop. My son has used them to take three Alaskan bull moose with said bullets and I've loaned it to two friends to shoot theirs too, and none of these were meat bulls. Last spring, my son rolled a grizzly with them. To add icing to the cake, I can shoot one inch groups with them at 200 yards. That is a fantastic confidence booster when you're sheep hunting. I suppose that they'd work as well on whitetails too. A-max all the way!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
There are reasons that Hornady does not state that A-Max's are for hunting. None of them are because they are unsuitable. The AMP jacketed ones perform exactly like the old ones in tissue.
I will tell you that several of the big wigs at Hornady have and do use them on game. Believe what you want. We have killed hundreds of deer with them. I always find it interesting when those who have zero experience argue with those who are very experienced with something.... This statement is spot on, if you ask me. Like was said earlier, A-maxes used to be recommended by Hornady for thin skinned game. I think I even have some reloading manuals that state as much. In that capacity, they work right well. Hornady employees will even tell you so. I consider the 162 A-max to be the best bullet Hornady makes. It is awesome. The 75gr ain't too shabby either.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273 |
The family and I will be running 162s into mule deer and lopes next year, I know that for sure.
Might even try one on one of those big brown elky bastards soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
It'll be hell on mulies, guaranteed.
I was gonna use some 105s on deer this year, but never got around to it. Too many rifles.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,507
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,507 |
I'm going to be looking for a fat cow elk in the first week of December, and I'm trying to decide whether to stick her with a 105 or a 162. The 105 will be slung at 3160fps from a 12lbs .243AI, and the 162 from a 7lbs 7WSM at 3070fps. Hmmm, decisions, decisions. I guess I'll bring both and let the terrain and expected shot distance decide.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273 |
Seems like as good a time as any to let our 162 experiment take shape, eh Jordan? Late season cows seem to offer perfect opportunities.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,851 Likes: 48
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,851 Likes: 48 |
Seems like as good a time as any to let our 162 experiment take shape, eh Jordan? Late season cows seem to offer perfect opportunities. I'm betting it will be awesome. Keep the board posted!
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,966
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,966 |
Here is mine out of my 'lope this year. 123 Amp jacket, 200 yds, about 3000fps impact speed. Awsome bullet mushroom for 3,000 fps impact speed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,507
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,507 |
Seems like as good a time as any to let our 162 experiment take shape, eh Jordan? Late season cows seem to offer perfect opportunities. I was just out smashing steel with both bullets today. It's gonna be a tough decision! That .243AI is just so easy to get behind and shoot bug holes with. The Montana 7WSM ain't too shabby either, easily holding MOA and usually much better, but it sure is more lively than the 12lbs .243AI, with its A5 stock. I'll do my best to use the 162, in the name of science, but I can't promise that I won't have a moment of weakness when the time comes! *grin* I shot a 4-shot group at 100 yards with the 105AM today that went 0.31MOA, and I pulled the 3rd shot low. I knew it right as the trigger broke. If I hadn't have dropped the ball, it would have been a fair bit better. The other 3 shots go 0.11MOA  That kind of performance just inspires confidence when shooting LR. The Kimber is accurate as far as hunting rifles go, but it's not the same as a 12lbs dedicated LR rifle. I'll likely carry the Kimber, but from what I understand this is a prairie hunt where there are hundreds of elk in the herd, and it's darn tough to get closer than 400-500 yards out without the herd busting you and making tracks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273 |
Heck, if you're comfortable running one of those 105's into an elk, that'd just further contribute to these grueling scientific research excursions! It took me about 11 rounds to find a 162/7RM load that went 3/4". I went out today with some friends and beat the heck out of a little bitty steel plate at 500 yards figuring out my velocity without the chrony; a bottom end charge of RL-22 is spitting them out at 2930. Tomorrow, we'll see how they do at 600 on out, maybe to 1,000. I've got a late season cow tag that ends January 31st, should be enough time to draw some hard, data-supported conclusions... grin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,312
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,312 |
I whacked a doe with the 6.5 120gr Amax @ 2900fps. Hit leg bone at 50 yards and said bullet did not penetrate into chest cavity. Impact did rip the top of the right lung apart and bleeding was good internally. She went about 50 yards and was partially "unzipped" when I found her. Guess I should have aimed a little farther back. The bullet was no where to be found.
If some one sends me their cell # I can text them so they can post the pics for me.
Talking to you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
|
|
|
|
|
197 members (1lessdog, 222Sako, 280shooter, 10gaugemag, 2500HD, 19 invisible),
1,667
guests, and
1,038
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,120
Posts18,483,620
Members73,966
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/549/medium/IMG_1373_3_.JPG)
