hey guys im from indiana and have never had a chance to shoot 00 up there but down here in NC its legal im not so much interested in using it as letting my wife use it in a H&R Tracker smoothbore i have and i might carry it when im hunting in the deep thick woods my question is what is the best to use i see some have 9 pellets some have 12 or 15 and whats my range gonna be out of a 12 gauge using 00
The Federal "Vital-Shok with Flitecontrol" shoot the tightest patterns in most guns. They have a 9 pellet 2.75" and 12 pellet 3" loads, both at 1325 fps.
They run a LOT of deer with dogs here in north Florida and there are over a million acres of land where they can do it and although I use a scoped rifle, the most popular weapon of choice is an autoloader or pump 12 guage shooting 3" magnum shells with #1 buck and although there are a pretty large percentage of the deer wounded that require follow up shots (sometimes SEVERAL LOL) there still are a lot of deer killed.
They are often shot running out to 100 yards and most people aim for the head and neck which of course ends up messing up a lot of racks but then our racks aren't all that great anyway... LOL
I consider the effective range for buckshot in a well patterned shotgun to be under 40 yards but every rule has it's exceptions and some shotgun/shell combinations yield some enourmously tight patters that hold together remarkably well waaaaaay out there.
$bob$
Many who have freedom have no idea where they got it....
I bet there ara lot of wounded deer if they are shooting buckshot at running deer at 100 yards with buckshot ! Buckshot is normally a 50 yard and less proposition with a lot less being better ! Say 3O yards or so is where the stuff is normally used.
my ex brother in law told me he killed a deer with buckshot at 100 yards and I told him if anyone else had told me that I would have told them they must be living right! Or else it was just that deers day to die as Buckshot is not a 100 yard deer load,running or standing. Craig
Full Choke for 00 , but myself i prefer Number 4 Buck for deer
My old 12 gauge with screw in chokes shoots the 00 better with the modified tube screwed in, #4's shoot better for me in full choke.
All time fav is the Winchester X12C1B, it's a 2.75" #1 copper plated buckshot, 20 copper plated #1 shot in a 2.75" hull is a helluva payload on deer under 50 yards.
Have also flipped coyotes a 180 from the ground too, it's a rough customer of a load, and also the one's I have in my old 10-shot pump house guns.
I have always gotten tighter groups with full choke and 00 . I would pattern with full, mod and IC and see which worked best in the shotgun i was going to use them in. All shotguns seem to have their preference when it comes to chokes and a particular shot load
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
Get some freezer paper and put out about a 3ft square area as a target. try chokes and diffrent shells to see what shoots best. Every gun is diffrent. I did kill two north carolina does in front of the dogs with 2-3/4 federal flight control buckshot out a benelli yesterday though. A shotgun is hell on a deer in thick cover.
Hornady Tap or Federal Premium with the flight control wad shoot considerable tighter patterns than anything I've tested. The manufacturer recomends imp cyl choke. I got nearly one hole patterns at 15yds with that combination in my M2 Tactical.
"The world breaks everyone,and afterward, some are strong at the broken places" Hemingway
Wish buckshot was legal here. Got a good Cannon County 7-point @ 21 yards today w AR. Barnes Vortyx 55-gr. TSX exploded his heart and he went only 35 yards before collapsing, but I'll bet a 54-pellet 4 Buck 3.5-in. Outta my Xtrema2 would have crushed him in his tracks...
We also have the illogical "nothin bigger than T-shot for coyotes" rule here, too.
Well I tend to be just a tad out of the box, that sead. I hunted MT general season with this year a mossberg HD 12cylinder bore 3" 00 buck. Thoungh it took some time( the last day) but I did get an perfict 2x2 muly at 32yds hight shoulder and wow no tracking.
Not bad at the range I got mine. It is kind of like the true blackpowder ball. You can eat right up and to the hole, though I had eight out of the possible 15.
Years ago, I killed an Ohio 6 pointer with 16 gauge choked full. Distance was approx 20 yards. #1 buck ammo by Remington. The deer ran less than 40 yards before toppling over in mid stride. Damage to the chest organs was considerable. I imagine that a 12 gauge shooting 00 buck is just as lethal but with more "reach."
TR
Last edited by Sherwood; 12/03/12. Reason: spelling fixed
You have to try different chokes. My full choke in an 11-87 sprayed them all over but the modified held the tightest pattern of any shotgun I have used. It was wicked at 40 yards will all 15 pellets hitting a paper bag. By the way, a good old brown paper bag is just the right size to determine how many pellets will be in the chest area of a deer.
I'e done some pretty extensive patterning with 12 ga. buckshot, and have killed a several deer with it as well from very close to about 40 yards out. While I would recommend testing various loads in your gun, I've had the best luck with a modified choke overall, though some preferred other chokes, usually tighter ones. The unplated 2 3/4" loads were some of the worst offenders pattern wise.
I've found that patterns get spotty past 40 yards, so much so that that's as far as I will shoot, even if an individual pellet has enough energy farther out, you can't place them precisely.
The best thing is, test for yourself. My best gun/load combo was an 870 express with a 28" barrel and a mod choke. That gun would put the Winchester super-x 3" 15 pellet copper plated load into some very respectable groups. at 50 yards, 9 of the 15 would hit in a pie plate. That's the only gun I'd consider going over 40 yds with.
I used to hunt a bit with 00 back when we ran hounds for deer, it would kill them with authority with a good patterning rig out to around 40. Past 40 it was pretty useless unless you had a good hound. I switched over to 9 pellet 000 and liked it much better.
My son took 2 does this year using Winchester 3-inch (15 pellet) 00 in a Beretta 390 with a modified choke tube installed. Distance was about 39-35 yards each time.
True Bea, have ya ever busted a coyote with a load of buckshot coming in on a hard quarter at 15 yards?, damn thats fun.
Gunner
I have never killed a coyote with shot any larger than number 5's.
10-Roger, I was using a young deer bleat one morning in the brush, had my A-5 Browning with 1B, heard what I thought was a doe trotting in to the call, it was a big yotey, busted his ass at 15 steps, that 1B is rough stuff on varmints in close.
Several years ago I was doing lots of Goose hunting. I reloaded all my ammo so was experimenting with shot sizes. Used mostly #2 and 4buck out of a mossberg 500 full choke. A friend told me about his grandfather using 00 buck on whitetail in willows along the river. Got some 00 and loaded up some 3 inch hulls and went hunting. A fork horn came honking out of brush on my left side. Went in front of me and angling away at about 35 or 40 yards. I did not take time to shoulder the gun but whirled and fired from the hip. he was dead in mid stride and broke one horn off when he hit the ground. Never made a twitch as he lay. The pattern hit at the rear of his head and back to in front of the shoulder. That day I gained new respect for the awesome killing power of a buckshot load.
Have not hunted dear with buckshot since as so many places do not allow it. I would use it if allowed here. (I have moved since that first hunt)
what's it like field dressing one of these broadside I.E.D. deer?
guacamole city?
Actually think of it this way... Each pellet is a round ball delivered at a velocity of a non-magnum handgun. Meat damage is minimal for each pellet and penetration is rarely very deep.
There isn't nearly as much meat damage as you might imagine unless the animal is shot at point blank range which is very rare.
Most running deer shots here with shotguns are from 30-80yds and often you can't even see where the animal was hit until they're skinned.
Don't get me wrong... I prefer a centerfire rifle first last and always for deer hunting but the shotgun/buckshot hunters are pretty successful.
$bob$
Many who have freedom have no idea where they got it....
When I had to use a shotgun, I found my modified barrel shot #1 buck better than 0 or 00
It has been MANY years since I've used buckshot, but I would have to agree on #1. I used to use Winchester Mark V buckshot in #1 buck. It was "fantastic" when used at 50-75 yds. Now NH has made it illegal to use anything smaller than 00 buck. More genius............
NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
I HAVE HAD MIXED EXPERIENCE WITH BUCKSHOT. I HAVE SHOT 3 DEER OVER THE YEARS WITH A SHOTGUN. I SHOT 2 THE SAME DAY, THE FIRST ONE WAS ABOUT 30 YARDS AND THE 00 HIT IT LIKE A TRAIN{DRT}. THE SECOND ONE WAS ABOUT THE SAME DISTANCE AND HIT THE GROUND HARD BUT JUMPED RITE BACK UP AND I NEVER SAW IT AGAIN, ONLY A FEW DROPS OF BLOOD. THE THIRD DEER WAS ABOUT 60 YARDS AND AGAIN I KNOCKED IT DOWN BUT IT GOT UP AS I WAS PUTTING THE SECOND ROUND IN HIM, HE BLED PRETTY GOOD FOR ABOUT 100 YARDS THEN QUIT. I KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT SHOOT SHOTGUNS WITH GREAT SUCCESS BUT AS FOR ME ILL STICK TO MY RIFLE.
"If you got it, you got it!" In memory of Pops, gone but never forgotten
The only deer I shot with buckshot was my first. I've patterned various loads through several shotguns. I haven't found a gun/load combination in my shotguns that I would use past 25 yd. YMMV, pattern before you hunt.
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I HAVE HAD MIXED EXPERIENCE WITH BUCKSHOT. I HAVE SHOT 3 DEER OVER THE YEARS WITH A SHOTGUN. I SHOT 2 THE SAME DAY, THE FIRST ONE WAS ABOUT 30 YARDS AND THE 00 HIT IT LIKE A TRAIN{DRT}. THE SECOND ONE WAS ABOUT THE SAME DISTANCE AND HIT THE GROUND HARD BUT JUMPED RITE BACK UP AND I NEVER SAW IT AGAIN, ONLY A FEW DROPS OF BLOOD. THE THIRD DEER WAS ABOUT 60 YARDS AND AGAIN I KNOCKED IT DOWN BUT IT GOT UP AS I WAS PUTTING THE SECOND ROUND IN HIM, HE BLED PRETTY GOOD FOR ABOUT 100 YARDS THEN QUIT. I KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT SHOOT SHOTGUNS WITH GREAT SUCCESS BUT AS FOR ME ILL STICK TO MY RIFLE.
Wound 2 , kill 1. And you're just one guy.
Glad you converted back.
Sucks for the coyotes though. Now, they're back to eating chitlins.
When I had to use a shotgun, I found my modified barrel shot #1 buck better than 0 or 00
It has been MANY years since I've used buckshot, but I would have to agree on #1. I used to use Winchester Mark V buckshot in #1 buck. It was "fantastic" when used at 50-75 yds. Now NH has made it illegal to use anything smaller than 00 buck. More genius............
When i was a little kid and dad, uncles and grandad and his brothers and their boys used shotguns for deer run by hounds in the East Texas piney woods country and on their forays to the Big Thicket, they all used no 1 Buck with full chokes. This was before the advent of plastic hulls and shot cups. FC was used for ducks, geese and squirrel.
Full choke guns typically shot no 1 buck in better patterns than they did 00.
Lead 2's and BB and no4 buck are hell on coyotes often to 80 yards.
Last edited by jaguartx; 02/04/17.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I don't personally know anything about buckshot, but I can't imagine ever choosing to hunt deer with it. My 870 turkey gun has #4 buck in the butt cuff, when it is behind the door.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I don't personally know anything about buckshot, but I can't imagine ever choosing to hunt deer with it. My 870 turkey gun has #4 buck in the butt cuff, when it is behind the door.
In some places, if you want to hunt deer, there is no other choice. I've killed a pile with buckshot. In my early hunting days, I hunted counties in Virginia that allowed nothing else. Most hunts were with dogs, running deer, ranges short, and brush thick. There are many folks in the South that just love to run deer (and bears) with dogs.
In my experience a modified choke and 2 3/4 magnum (12 pellets) worked best, before replaceable choke tube technology became the norm. Now special, ported buckshot chokes seem to give better performance. When hunting with friends and family running dogs, I use 3 1/2 00 buck out of a Beretta with a Kicks. Wickedly effective further than most would suspect, but I have a self-imposed limit of 50 yards.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Most every shotgun is different , have to pattern yours with different chokes and buckshot. I use a Browning BPS 10 ga worked well with Federal copper plated 00 . Killed 2 with that combo this year. Its a good 60 yd gun and does best with a modified choke.
I've killed deer with it and crippled deer with it. Buckshot that I have patterned tends to throw clusters of shot that could miss a deer's vitals with the pattern centered on the deer's chest. I wouldn't use it now unless I didn't mind crippling animals. But that's just my experience with it.
Please don't flame! I look upon buckshot like I do all 24 and smaller cartridges. In the right, EXPERIENCED, handss, they are ok. I come from East Texas, where running deer with dogs was legal, but no longer. Hunters would try to get ahead of the dogs and spread out at fifty yards. I've seen people shoot at deer past the next hunter at over 100yds. I can't prove this, but I would guess a lot more deer are wounded and not found than are found. Many that use them have no business using them. Captdavid
"It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds.
If you are a hunter, and farther than that, get closer!
as previously posted by others, a responsible hunter would pattern their shotgun (or any firearm)with the ammo they intended to use, and wouldn't use anything with a less than optimal pattern. folks that would just fling lead would likely do so no matter what firearm they were holding at the time. myself, i've killed several with regular old cheap buckshot, mostly on days that were full of east Texas fog and at close range. the first one i killed on my own place was killed during a fog so thick that a rifle with the most expensive of scopes would have been useless.
When I had to use a shotgun, I found my modified barrel shot #1 buck better than 0 or 00
It has been MANY years since I've used buckshot, but I would have to agree on #1. I used to use Winchester Mark V buckshot in #1 buck. It was "fantastic" when used at 50-75 yds. Now NH has made it illegal to use anything smaller than 00 buck. More genius............
When i was a little kid and dad, uncles and grandad and his brothers and their boys used shotguns for deer run by hounds in the East Texas piney woods country and on their forays to the Big Thicket, they all used no 1 Buck with full chokes. This was before the advent of plastic hulls and shot cups. FC was used for ducks, geese and squirrel.
Full choke guns typically shot no 1 buck in better patterns than they did 00.
Lead 2's and BB and no4 buck are hell on coyotes often to 80 yards.
You realize you replied to a 5 year old thread don't you? (I'm guessing you don't)
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
Please don't flame! I look upon buckshot like I do all 24 and smaller cartridges. In the right, EXPERIENCED, handss, they are ok. I come from East Texas, where running deer with dogs was legal, but no longer. Hunters would try to get ahead of the dogs and spread out at fifty yards. I've seen people shoot at deer past the next hunter at over 100yds. I can't prove this, but I would guess a lot more deer are wounded and not found than are found. Many that use them have no business using them. Captdavid
I hunted deer this way for many years. It's still legal here and many people still do it on large acreages. It's more of a social event than anything else. You spend most of your time hunting dogs, not deer. Or that use to be the case anyway. I haven't hunted that way for many years and have no desire to go back to it, but I did have a lot of fun doing it. I usually kept 2 guns in my pickup, a shotgun with buckshot for the close in fast shots and a rifle for the long shots across bean fields. Killed a lot of deer that way and did my part to keep the dog food companies in business as well.
”Those who would give up liberty for security, deserve neither.” Ben Franklin
When I had to use a shotgun, I found my modified barrel shot #1 buck better than 0 or 00
It has been MANY years since I've used buckshot, but I would have to agree on #1. I used to use Winchester Mark V buckshot in #1 buck. It was "fantastic" when used at 50-75 yds. Now NH has made it illegal to use anything smaller than 00 buck. More genius............
When i was a little kid and dad, uncles and grandad and his brothers and their boys used shotguns for deer run by hounds in the East Texas piney woods country and on their forays to the Big Thicket, they all used no 1 Buck with full chokes. This was before the advent of plastic hulls and shot cups. FC was used for ducks, geese and squirrel.
Full choke guns typically shot no 1 buck in better patterns than they did 00.
Lead 2's and BB and no4 buck are hell on coyotes often to 80 yards.
You realize you replied to a 5 year old thread don't you? (I'm guessing you don't)
Good thread, huh?
It's not as old as you though, huh?
Last edited by jaguartx; 02/08/17.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Please don't flame! I look upon buckshot like I do all 24 and smaller cartridges. In the right, EXPERIENCED, handss, they are ok. I come from East Texas, where running deer with dogs was legal, but no longer. Hunters would try to get ahead of the dogs and spread out at fifty yards. I've seen people shoot at deer past the next hunter at over 100yds. I can't prove this, but I would guess a lot more deer are wounded and not found than are found. Many that use them have no business using them. Captdavid
Sorry cap. I never saw more than 3 or 4 hunters posted less than several hundred yards apart and generally seperated by ridges between draws in thick woods.
With respect to the years ago rarity of hunters shot by hunters while hounding deer im guessing youre posting bs and question your drink. I only hunted with real woodsmen however rather than with city slicker sound shooters.
No man i ever hunted with ever shot anything or at anything not normally for the table on a hunt for wild game.
Im sorry to hear of the existence of 'hunters' you associated with.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Ohio was shotgun only and slug or sabot only,(for deer) until the last few years. Rifle is new to this state, so I could not justify a new hunting rifle on a single income. 00 Buck is in the shotgun above the door, but never used on deer. I am, however, quite at home with a shotgun. I can't say how it will work on deer, but it put a feral dog down like his strings had been cut.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
One group did venture into our camp one evening years ago when timberland was open to one and all, to have a drink and spread bs, i guess. Around the campfire they asked my dad how he dared hunt in the old ww2 camo and if he wasnt afraid of someone throwing a 'sound shot' his way.
He replied that bullets could fly two directions and they had best be behind a big tree if they fired in his direction.
That cooled the campfire discussion that night.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Kellory, many deer run a good way after being hit with buckshot ahead of hounds. Thing is, hounds dont leave the track after the shot. If a dog can run a trail on the scent from a track, their z ability is not diminished by the presence of blood on it.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Kellory, many deer run a good way after being hit with buckshot ahead of hounds. Thing is, hounds dont leave the track after the shot. If a dog can run a trail on the scent from a track, their z ability is not diminished by the presence of blood on it.
I don't doubt it. I've seen what dogs can do, and trained more than a few. Trained a Golden to track my kids on command. Nearly all forms of hunting are on my bucket list.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
I have killed one deer with 00 buckshot, and I was underwhelmed.
A smallish fork horn blacktail stood broadside to me at 32 yards with his head turned toward me. I aimed at his inside eye, which was almost aligned with his shoulder, and fired a 2 34 inch 12 gauge shell with 9 rounds of 00 buck. I expected to hit him in the head and shoulder/chest. Two balls hit the deer and the other 7 missed entirely. One went through the top of his shoulder blades on both sides, above the spine. The other hit low in his ribs, neither making much of a wound channel as both pushed through to the hide on the off side.
He went down but was awakening when I reached him so I shot him again under the ear, expecting massive damage and perhaps severing his neck. He dropped his head at the shot but there was no sign of a wound! Then a few drops of blood began to seep from the neck hair. The 2 1/2 inch wide wound area was exactly as if I had jabbed his neck nine times with a school pencil. The 00 shot were mostly stopped against the spinal bones, and the spine was not severed at all.
If I ever hunt with a shotgun again for deer, I will use a round with many more pellets to fill in the wide empty parts of the pattern, and # 4 buck is what my Texas friends have recommended.
I live in a special regulations area of Pennsylvania where no rifles are allowed for hunting. I have hunted here a few times (normally I go to the mountains) and have taken a few deer with 00 buckshot. It will drop them in their tracks at close range but I would be very careful about range. I use a full choke and wouldn't shoot beyond about 35-40 yards. If you pattern a shotgun carefully, you might find that you can extend that range but it is a close-range load. If you want to shoot over 50 yards, you would be better off shooting a rifled slug out of that smooth bore.
I don't personally know anything about buckshot, but I can't imagine ever choosing to hunt deer with it. My 870 turkey gun has #4 buck in the butt cuff, when it is behind the door.
That should say you personally don't know anything....
How hard is it to kill a deer? 22 rimfires work just fine.... there is a lot more to killing deer than what weapon/ammo you use.
Especially if you've killed a few with lead 2s in short 12 ga shells....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Each gun is different , some pattern smaller buckshot best. Other guns will shoot the bigger pellets best , I have used most sizes except 000 . THey all work within reason . Just shoot it with several choke tubes and see what works best. 12 ga #6 shot will work at the right range. Last several times i've used 00 out of a Bps 10 ga. 50 yds put 11 pellets in a deer chest.
I've only seen one deer shot with 00 buck in my life. Killed it deader than shyt instantly. Range was about 25 yards. Pellet hits in shoulder, ribs and base of neck.
I want to say up front that I have never shot at a deer with buckshot. I have never hunted in a state that allowed it. I don't, therefore, want to be mistaken for an expert on this. I also don't want this to seem like I'm knocking buckshot or its use on Whitetails.
What I do know about it is that before the advent of modern seasons, buckshot was very popular for deer. A lot of that popularity came from cultural inertia. Folks had been spraying shot at Whitetail deer since white men set foot on the continent. At moderate ranges it worked, at least by the standards of the time. What were those standards? In general, the mindset of an early 19th Century Whitetail hunter was to put a ball into the deer any way he could and then put the dogs on it. One shot was generally not expected to bring down an animal. Often the finisher was delivered with a knife.
Even with the advent of centerfire rifle, no one really changed their way of looking at things. Teddy Roosevelt writes about putting 13 rounds into a single doe in a long pursuit after putting the first round into her rump while on a meat hunt out West. No, he wasn't using buckshot. However, he was sort of simulating it. Nobody was really planning about dropping a Whitetail on the first shot, or at least they were not expecting it.
That kind of mindset was even in Jack O'Connor's earlier work, and you can see it in the whole "Brush Busting" mindset. Folks were encouraged to shoot at whatever part of the animal was sticking out of cover, or to even shoot through heavy cover to reach it. The idea was still to put a ball in to get a blood trail and then track the animal until you could put in a finisher.
I've got stuff on my shelf from the Thirties and Forties extolling the use of buckshot out to 80 yards. Now, you folks that are experienced with buckshot can tell me: 80 yards with buckshot? What would you expect the outcome to be? I'm not knocking buckshot, mind you. I'm just saying the mindset of these hunters was considerably different from today's "One-shot/One-kill" view of things.
If you look at the responses on this thread, they pretty well match what I've been hearing from folks for the past 40 years. At what most people consider to be bow hunting ranges, buckshot is just as effective as any other round. The results are highly variable, shotgun by shotgun and load by load. Some wouldn't trust buck past 30 yards. Some trust it out past 50. YMMV-- in this case there is an emphasis on the "V." What you find is that the further out you go, folks' expectations change, and their idea of acceptable losses due to wounding goes up.
These ideas all die hard. Did you ever wonder why a quintessential "hunting knife" was so long, when it's so unwieldy up inside a Whitetail? The reason, in part, is that hunters needed a long blade to reach the vitals. In the autobiography of Mishack Browning, he discusses his favorite method of dispatching a buck was to mount the wounded animal and ride it while plunging his knife into the vitals. The idea of slitting a deer's throat? That's only effective if the animal is still alive. I would also warn that early hunting memoirs discussed how wolf packs followed the hunters, living off the leavings and running down the woundings, often in concert with the hunter's own dogs.
Is buckshot effective against a Whitetail? Yes, especially if you expect to be hopping on its back to finish it off. I'm not knocking the practice. I'm just saying know what you're getting yourself into.
I've got stuff on my shelf from the Thirties and Forties extolling the use of buckshot out to 80 yards. Now, you folks that are experienced with buckshot can tell me: 80 yards with buckshot? What would you expect the outcome to be? I'm not knocking buckshot, mind you. I'm just saying the mindset of these hunters was considerably different from today's "One-shot/One-kill" view of things.
I have a lot of experience with buckshot. After quite a bit of experimenting, I have a setup I trust out to 70 yards. My Super Black eagle will put 16 00s into 20" at 60 yards every time.
I only remember one I had to finish killing with a knife. I had shot him high with a .270 breaking his back.
I want to say up front that I have never shot at a deer with buckshot. I have never hunted in a state that allowed it. I don't, therefore, want to be mistaken for an expert on this. I also don't want this to seem like I'm knocking buckshot or its use on Whitetails.
What I do know about it is that before the advent of modern seasons, buckshot was very popular for deer. A lot of that popularity came from cultural inertia. Folks had been spraying shot at Whitetail deer since white men set foot on the continent. At moderate ranges it worked, at least by the standards of the time. What were those standards? In general, the mindset of an early 19th Century Whitetail hunter was to put a ball into the deer any way he could and then put the dogs on it. One shot was generally not expected to bring down an animal. Often the finisher was delivered with a knife.
Even with the advent of centerfire rifle, no one really changed their way of looking at things. Teddy Roosevelt writes about putting 13 rounds into a single doe in a long pursuit after putting the first round into her rump while on a meat hunt out West. No, he wasn't using buckshot. However, he was sort of simulating it. Nobody was really planning about dropping a Whitetail on the first shot, or at least they were not expecting it.
That kind of mindset was even in Jack O'Connor's earlier work, and you can see it in the whole "Brush Busting" mindset. Folks were encouraged to shoot at whatever part of the animal was sticking out of cover, or to even shoot through heavy cover to reach it. The idea was still to put a ball in to get a blood trail and then track the animal until you could put in a finisher.
I've got stuff on my shelf from the Thirties and Forties extolling the use of buckshot out to 80 yards. Now, you folks that are experienced with buckshot can tell me: 80 yards with buckshot? What would you expect the outcome to be? I'm not knocking buckshot, mind you. I'm just saying the mindset of these hunters was considerably different from today's "One-shot/One-kill" view of things.
If you look at the responses on this thread, they pretty well match what I've been hearing from folks for the past 40 years. At what most people consider to be bow hunting ranges, buckshot is just as effective as any other round. The results are highly variable, shotgun by shotgun and load by load. Some wouldn't trust buck past 30 yards. Some trust it out past 50. YMMV-- in this case there is an emphasis on the "V." What you find is that the further out you go, folks' expectations change, and their idea of acceptable losses due to wounding goes up.
These ideas all die hard. Did you ever wonder why a quintessential "hunting knife" was so long, when it's so unwieldy up inside a Whitetail? The reason, in part, is that hunters needed a long blade to reach the vitals. In the autobiography of Mishack Browning, he discusses his favorite method of dispatching a buck was to mount the wounded animal and ride it while plunging his knife into the vitals. The idea of slitting a deer's throat? That's only effective if the animal is still alive. I would also warn that early hunting memoirs discussed how wolf packs followed the hunters, living off the leavings and running down the woundings, often in concert with the hunter's own dogs.
Is buckshot effective against a Whitetail? Yes, especially if you expect to be hopping on its back to finish it off. I'm not knocking the practice. I'm just saying know what you're getting yourself into.
80 yds no , not saying it can't be done but that's more luck than anything. I have a 10 gauge BPS that I'm confident up to 60. Though I prefer 40 and under.
in the foxfire#5 book, one of the folks that was interviewed in one of the hunting chapters spoke of his shotgun's ability to put all of the pellets of a buckshot round into the same hole at 100 yards. i'd have to see that with my own eyes. i'd believe maybe a half a dozen or so pellets at 60 or 80 with modern chokes and ammo, but not in the same hole. i'm hesitant past 50 with my equipment and ammo with what testing i've done. i can say any deer i've shot with buckshot were recovered and didn't need a finisher, bullet or blade.
I have a lot of experience with buckshot. After quite a bit of experimenting, I have a setup I trust out to 70 yards. My Super Black eagle will put 16 00s into 20" at 60 yards every time.
I only remember one I had to finish killing with a knife. I had shot him high with a .270 breaking his back.
It's funny you mention the .270. I went looking for a discussion of buckshot, and found the following in an Outdoor Life Cyclopedia from 1942:
What's interesting is the surrounding text was criticizing the .270 WIN as creating too much meat damage.
I want to say up front that I have never shot at a deer with buckshot. I have never hunted in a state that allowed it. I don't, therefore, want to be mistaken for an expert on this. I also don't want this to seem like I'm knocking buckshot or its use on Whitetails.
What I do know about it is that before the advent of modern seasons, buckshot was very popular for deer. A lot of that popularity came from cultural inertia. Folks had been spraying shot at Whitetail deer since white men set foot on the continent. At moderate ranges it worked, at least by the standards of the time. What were those standards? In general, the mindset of an early 19th Century Whitetail hunter was to put a ball into the deer any way he could and then put the dogs on it. One shot was generally not expected to bring down an animal. Often the finisher was delivered with a knife.
Even with the advent of centerfire rifle, no one really changed their way of looking at things. Teddy Roosevelt writes about putting 13 rounds into a single doe in a long pursuit after putting the first round into her rump while on a meat hunt out West. No, he wasn't using buckshot. However, he was sort of simulating it. Nobody was really planning about dropping a Whitetail on the first shot, or at least they were not expecting it.
That kind of mindset was even in Jack O'Connor's earlier work, and you can see it in the whole "Brush Busting" mindset. Folks were encouraged to shoot at whatever part of the animal was sticking out of cover, or to even shoot through heavy cover to reach it. The idea was still to put a ball in to get a blood trail and then track the animal until you could put in a finisher.
I've got stuff on my shelf from the Thirties and Forties extolling the use of buckshot out to 80 yards. Now, you folks that are experienced with buckshot can tell me: 80 yards with buckshot? What would you expect the outcome to be? I'm not knocking buckshot, mind you. I'm just saying the mindset of these hunters was considerably different from today's "One-shot/One-kill" view of things.
If you look at the responses on this thread, they pretty well match what I've been hearing from folks for the past 40 years. At what most people consider to be bow hunting ranges, buckshot is just as effective as any other round. The results are highly variable, shotgun by shotgun and load by load. Some wouldn't trust buck past 30 yards. Some trust it out past 50. YMMV-- in this case there is an emphasis on the "V." What you find is that the further out you go, folks' expectations change, and their idea of acceptable losses due to wounding goes up.
These ideas all die hard. Did you ever wonder why a quintessential "hunting knife" was so long, when it's so unwieldy up inside a Whitetail? The reason, in part, is that hunters needed a long blade to reach the vitals. In the autobiography of Mishack Browning, he discusses his favorite method of dispatching a buck was to mount the wounded animal and ride it while plunging his knife into the vitals. The idea of slitting a deer's throat? That's only effective if the animal is still alive. I would also warn that early hunting memoirs discussed how wolf packs followed the hunters, living off the leavings and running down the woundings, often in concert with the hunter's own dogs.
Is buckshot effective against a Whitetail? Yes, especially if you expect to be hopping on its back to finish it off. I'm not knocking the practice. I'm just saying know what you're getting yourself into.
I"ve shot a handful with buckshot.. probably around 10... I've never had to finish a single one.
The problem with ANYTHING, know the limits of what you are using, and know YOUR limits. Beyond that the rest can GFY basically.
Of course I grew up listening to a few folks, then realizing not everythign they said was true re hunting. Dad did not deer hutn.. So I learned to listen, but then to verify it all myself before trusting anything.
Like a post on another thread, how do you get your drops for say a 500 yard shot? FLIPPING DUH? Shoot at 500 yards. There is NO other way... if you have any ethics.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I'm pretty sure that the muzzle energy of each 00 pellet is somewhere between a 22 LR and a 22 WMR. As a result, you need to use it at close range. The farther you get, the close it will be in performance to a .22 LR because the round projectile will lose velocity quickly.
For me, 00 buckshot is for inside of 40 yards and only where safety requires a short range projectile. Personally, I think it serves a roll in that limited situation but is not an otherwise good deer load. In fact, if I had to choose I would take the energy, accuracy and penetration (higher bc and jacketed) of a 22 WMR over 00 buckshot. Fortunately, where rifles are legal, we have far better options.
I"ve shot a handful with buckshot.. probably around 10... I've never had to finish a single one.
The problem with ANYTHING, know the limits of what you are using, and know YOUR limits. Beyond that the rest can GFY basically.
Of course I grew up listening to a few folks, then realizing not everythign they said was true re hunting. Dad did not deer hutn.. So I learned to listen, but then to verify it all myself before trusting anything.
Like a post on another thread, how do you get your drops for say a 500 yard shot? FLIPPING DUH? Shoot at 500 yards. There is NO other way... if you have any ethics.
I could not agree more. I suppose my whole point of even putting a comment in on this thread was to mention folks' expectations changed over the generations. I did not mean to suggest you or the rest of the folks that have commented have inhumane standards or that you're always having to run around finishing deer off with a knife.
The example I posted earlier today kind of points that way: it's a graphic of how a 20GA #3 buckshot load worked in 1942. I'm wondering a) 20 GA? b) #3??? Somebody help me out here: does that sound adequate for a 100 yard shot at a Whitetail? My point is someone back then must have thought it was.
I've got stuff on my shelf from the Thirties and Forties extolling the use of buckshot out to 80 yards. Now, you folks that are experienced with buckshot can tell me: 80 yards with buckshot? What would you expect the outcome to be? I'm not knocking buckshot, mind you. I'm just saying the mindset of these hunters was considerably different from today's "One-shot/One-kill" view of things.
I have a lot of experience with buckshot. After quite a bit of experimenting, I have a setup I trust out to 70 yards. My Super Black eagle will put 16 00s into 20" at 60 yards every time.
I only remember one I had to finish killing with a knife. I had shot him high with a .270 breaking his back.
What choke and shells please. You may have a good hundred yard coyote gun with 4 Buck. Nice to have when 3-5 come in together.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I don't know how it shoots #4 buck, but I'm shooting a Benelli Super Black Eagle 2 with 3.5" Remington 00 through a tru lock extra full choke. The Tru lock extra full is the same constriction as the factory full. I wanted an extended tube to protect the end of the barrel. The factory full actually shot a little better, it didn't lose 2 pellets. I have a jellyhead that was also very tight, but it shot high. The jellyhead held the same 13" pattern, but held a very tight core. It would always keep 12-13 in an 8" pattern, with the rest opening it up to 13".
I shoot #2 Remington through a Carlson's Dead Coyote Choke. It's the same one I use for turkey hunting using Federal lead #4 3" 12 GA. I haven't done anything close to 100 yards, but it's flipped a yote at 60.
Hey Shaman, Can you clarify this statement please. It really matters to me: "It's the same one I use for turkey hunting using Federal lead #4 3" 12 GA. I haven't done anything close to 100 yards, but it's flipped a yote at 60". I believe you are saying you use #4 lead shot on turkeys and #2 shot for coyotes. What kind of shot do you hunt Deer with???
I am wanting to buy another choke for my Remington 870 with remchoke. Currently have modified. I also want to reload or buy my own shotgun shells for best pattern. THANKS for the clarification ABLE
I see four more years of economic stagnation and high unemployment if Obama is reelected. He lies every time he opens his mouth. "The GREAT DECEIVER"! Scary prospect.Worst president EVER. UPS HAS ROTTEN CUSTOMER SERVICE, THIS I HAVE EXPERIENCED
I shoot #2 Remington through a Carlson's Dead Coyote Choke. It's the same one I use for turkey hunting using Federal lead #4 3" 12 GA. I haven't done anything close to 100 yards, but it's flipped a yote at 60.
Shaman, you should look at that pattern at 80 and 100. I figure 3-4 hits on a coyote at 100 would end its deer killing days.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
... I did not take time to shoulder the gun but whirled and fired from the hip....
What a dick.
Originally Posted by Archerhunter
Quit giving in inch by inch then looking back to lament the mile behind ya and wonder how to preserve those few feet left in front of ya. They'll never stop until they're stopped. That's a fact.
1) I've never shot at deer with shot. I'm not against it, I've just never hunted anywhere where it was legal.
2) I have a Mossberg 500 that I use as a dedicated turkey gun, and also a backup gun for coyote hunting. We hunt a 2-man setup. One covers the front door, facing the decoy and uses a scoped .223 REM or 25/06. The other uses the Mossy with a Carlson's Dead Coyote choke and #2 shot for the close-in shots coming through the back door.
3) I use #4 lead birdshot on the Turkeys through the same rig. That load has also taken several coyotes that come into our calls.
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